hydraulics

mark

mark

Well-known member
hydrobollocks 'an all that

planning to remove the offending pump this weekend and have a look see what can be fettled, new territory for me, have fiddled with most things over the years but never had to get really jiggy with hydraulics. Thought earlier we could maybe just buy a new dedicated hydraulic steering system, all at the back of the helm, 2 pipes and a ram on the rudder, leave the other pump just for driving the winches.... easy as...... then I saw the price :o:o:o

so need to get what we've got doing what it is supposed to....

any hydraulics boffins out there care to advise (or just fix it while we lounge on deck quaffing champagne and eating quails eggs!)
 
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Buy 2 little people to stand at the back - I'll throw a lemon at one of them when it's time to make a turn. We could have a lemon net with a channel thing coming back into the wheel house to save on lemons - or use just one lemon on a string.
 
Hydraulics not my strongest point and I dont qualify for little person status, but I can help with lemon chucking
 
Had a look around the hydraulics department of Morrisons tonight whilst in there (fruit & veg really) Have you seen the price of lemons!

Am doing some research and development into kiwi and cumquats as a alternative but early tests are not showing favourable.

Failing this, there is a short bloke lives at the end of our street I could ask to partner Grahame, I'd have put myself forward but I'm as wide as I am tall and the list might be too much. You need any more ballast for the forward cabin ;)
 
PMSL :D

As an aside - Me and Mark with a "K" were wandering back from the shower block at Peterhead Marina when we saw the lovely Pansy from a distance. I was struck for the first time by her bigness seeing someone in the wheelhouse (Marc with a "C") to give a bit of perspective and that. Mark with a "K" then reminded me that Marc with a "C" is only about about 9" tall and must have been standing on a box of lemons or summat trying to reach his tabs. I thought it was a cruel but accurate comment and thought it best not to tell Stumpy McGraw lest it caused grief and an outbreak of ankle biting :D

The thought of having my socks filled up with phlegm also put me off

The lad in question would have needed our super ladders to reach over the top of me lovely green wellys and it was low tide anyway
 
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What's the difference between a crane & a giraffe?. A crane has hydraulics!.
(feel free to pelt lemons in my direction)
 
:)

Would do a big green one with looodssa teeth but don't know how to.

Mmmmm, Thinking about this, why not buy a swing ball from the car boot sale, put it on the wheel house roof, replace the tennis ball with a lemon and hey presto, steering AND masts solved in one go.

Be just like a Wii but not ;)
 
Marc said:
:)

Would do a big green one with looodssa teeth but don't know how to.

Mmmmm, Thinking about this, why not buy a swing ball from the car boot sale, put it on the wheel house roof, replace the tennis ball with a lemon and hey presto, steering AND masts solved in one go.

Be just like a Wii but not ;)
Click to expand...

And a generator to boot
 
well... went down today and removed the offending contraption, so down in my dirty smell hole that I became so fond of there was this:
layout2.jpg

pumplayout.jpg


big shaft on bearings, big pulley, big belts from big engine, small universal joint and then the pump hiding at the end.
pump1.jpg

one fairly obvious problem straight away, anyone spot it?? bigger clue:
pump3.jpg


so here's the pump and U/J
pump5.jpg


gets it all off and home in the shed, some class bodgery, the pump shaft was not long enough, so the so called "engineer" welded a bit more on
pumpshaft.jpg


so it would reach the U/J
nosplines.jpg


so what we have is a pump that has had a bit bodged on that is looking for a woodruff key in order to drive, but not getting one, which has been stuck in a joint that is too big and used to have splines, and tightened to death to make it grip, something had to give!, not surprising the pump wouldn't drive as the what grip it had when overtightened was soon lost when it got warm, and the joint just span on the shaft.

all in my shed now awaiting some engineering miracle that I haven't thought of yet!
 
before the conundrum of "placement" (which i guess would involve moving pump brackets and hose mounts etc) what are the replacement costs for the pump and the universal joint?
 
The Great Wallsendo said:
before the conundrum of "placement" (which i guess would involve moving pump brackets and hose mounts etc) what are the replacement costs for the pump and the universal joint?
Click to expand...

potentially frightening for the pumpy bits, nee idea where to look for new joint

had a quick scoot about for a 'normal' full hydraulic steering system thats big enough to cope, that we could fit to be totally independant of the current hydraulics..... started in 4 figures and just kept going

got my fingers crossed that the local tractor nerds will sort me out, failing that I'm gonna tig weld the pump to the joint!

been offered one pump already from them, but a tad on the big size me thinks... it's from a JCB! gonna have a rummage through their spares shelves on tuesday, see if they have a small PTO pump off a tractor I can bolt a pulley wheel to, as it looks like thats where the one thats on came from

placement shouldn't be too problematic, plenty of 6"x4" oak bits and pieces to bolt stuff to!
 
is it me or is the pump a long way out of alignment with the shaft ?

if so it will twist the joint all the time its turning ,this is why things like car prop shafts have 2 joints so it can be out of line but in alignment

talking of which would a rubber guibo prop coupling from a car work on this set up , they are less touchy about the shaft and spline (pump in this case ) being a touch out of line

this is a car prop one
UNI GUIBO COUPLING E30 E36 E46 E12 E28 E34 E24 23 32 Z3 on eBay, also, Other Car Parts, Accessories, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats (end time 17-May-08 02:12:32 BST)
you can get smaller ones for steering columns with a clamp built in
 
bazw said:
is it me or is the pump a long way out of alignment with the shaft ?

if so it will twist the joint all the time its turning ,this is why things like car prop shafts have 2 joints so it can be out of line but in alignment

talking of which would a rubber guibo prop coupling from a car work on this set up , they are less touchy about the shaft and spline (pump in this case ) being a touch out of line

this is a car prop one
UNI GUIBO COUPLING E30 E36 E46 E12 E28 E34 E24 23 32 Z3 on eBay, also, Other Car Parts, Accessories, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats (end time 17-May-08 02:12:32 BST)
you can get smaller ones for steering columns with a clamp built in
Click to expand...


had thought about some sort or rubbery coupling but had no idea where to start looking! ta muchly!! :)

each of the bearing saddles on the main shaft incorporates a big rose joint so there's a fair bit give in terms of alignment, but its not that far out anyway...

but now you mention it... steering column with 2 U/J's in.... might be the very thing

I might also just try fit one of the pulleys direct to the shaft - surely a more efficient/simpler way for the whole doings??

out of curiosity, being a hydraulics numpty, are hydraulic pumps Bi-directional - ie you can spin em in either direction and they'll still work (as long as you reverse the hoses that is)
 
Mark
The driveshaft from a hillman imp contains a nice rubber UJ commonly used on jet drives on boats. May be worth googling IMP spares.

Hydraulic pumps are not reversable the reverse is done in the valve port mechanism.

Cheers
Dave
 
see if you can find a steering shaft off something like a VW Beetle or Golf, it should be the same as my 924 has - it's about 2' long with joints on each end, you'd be able to cut it down to fit no bother.
 
The problem with a UJ on a steering shaft is its designed to be as light as posible with a max turn rate of a few turns a minute. The Pump is probably rated at 1500 rpm. This does not give reliability in the long term.

Suggestion would be to remove pump, sprocket,shaft and bearing as a unit and rebuild the whole assembly in the work shop on a steeel subframe. Get it allaligned etc. Then take the whole thing back to the boat and bolt it to the readily available oak timbers with the only worry of aligning the sprocket of the chain drive. Far easier than trying to site build it and in theory you can do away with the UJ alltogether. Remove eveything in picture two and rebuild it as a bolt on item.

Cheers
Dave
 
Best idea would be to mount the pump on a new baseplate with some adjustment for belt tension. Fit a new pulley to the original pump shaft and drive it direct with the belts. The history of the Pansy and the effort you lads have put in so far deserves a good job being done and not another lash up. From the pump pics it looks like a lorry power steering pump and the clear plastic pipe looks to be a bit nipped. Hinge the mounting plate nearest the drive end with the adjuster moving the plate up / down. You could probably use one off an old lathe / drilling machine motor mounting plate and use the original checker plate mount welded on the new plate. this would make it easier to get to and service.
 

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