Licence question

The Great Wallsendo

Well-known member
After having a chat with DaveM on sunday I think it's about time I sent my own thoughts in to the relevant parties...we discussed apathy among a lot of anglers and I can understand his genuine frustration as a direct result of this...lots of people shouting, yet not a lot of people actually doing much about it

He also pointed out that I have been free to make several of my own points and opinions on this subject but, as it transpires, I have not sent my own email (thus becoming a stakeholder) and therefore it could be seen as hollow rhetoric...:red:

So...to make amends and make sure that my voice is heard - does anyone have the correct contact and email address regarding the white paper?

I have tried trawling through the various threads, but there's quite a few of them floating around...
 
I would say that some people disagree with this licence lark well alot,but do not really know how to put it in words and to the people who would read it and do something about it,like myself im no good at writing to officals,and wouldnt really know where to start and what to put down on paper or email.
Is there not a letter that someone has wrote out that all people could use as a template of some sort.
then email it to the people involved so our vioce can be heard ?.
even a petition if thats what its called.
 
Hi Tony,

Link you need is here.

Defra, UK - Consultations - Consultation on a Recreational Sea Angling Strategy for England

If you read the first letter to consultees and scroll right to the end they have listed some questions...there is no pass mark ...you cant fail the test but they do want your comments.

The full consultation document is the third item.

The second item is the list of people they are consulting with (stakeholders). That list is made up of those who have responded in the past.

If you or anyone reading this responds the next time there is anything raised that may affect sea angling, you ( or anyone who responds ) will get a copy as it is released.

What it means is that if something is proposed affecting angling, you as a stakeholder will know about it...you wont have to wait to read it in the angling press, or only hear about it when it becomes a major issue that may affect your club ( assuming you responded on their behalf) You will get an email directly from the government asking for your comments as a stakeholder.

A stakeholder is someone who has registered their right to have a say in the way our seas our run. Not too long ago that was a very very very short list....if you open the second item on that link you will see that more and more are being asked their opinion.

A democratic process has to be better than the system that has been in force for the last 120 years which has (alledgedly) been biased towards one industry.

We've seen where that has got us...ten minutes for an email from an individal or club means you are permenently recorded as an intrested party in the future of our inshore fisheries.

Sorry I never had a chat to you after the match Tony....seems I was in the weigh in station ...and you were busy at the raffle table :D:D

Cheers
Dave
 
I would say that some people disagree with this licence lark well alot,but do not really know how to put it in words and to the people who would read it and do something about it,like myself im no good at writing to officals,and wouldnt really know where to start and what to put down on paper or email.
Is there not a letter that someone has wrote out that all people could use as a template of some sort.
then email it to the people involved so our vioce can be heard ?.
even a petition if thats what its called.

after I've had a good read etc I'll cobble something together...I'll then post what I've written

Cheers Dave BTW
 
I would say that some people disagree with this licence lark well alot,but do not really know how to put it in words and to the people who would read it and do something about it,like myself im no good at writing to officals,and wouldnt really know where to start and what to put down on paper or email.
Is there not a letter that someone has wrote out that all people could use as a template of some sort.
then email it to the people involved so our vioce can be heard ?.
even a petition if thats what its called.

Vamp,

You are not alone with that comment.

I would be happy to help anyone write a response but I wont write it for you. It has to be your own words. Dont worry that you may not phrase something right as long as the message gets through.

These consultations are full of legal speak, unknown of terminology and organisations reffered to as letters that are baffling to the angler who goes out to purely enjoy his fishing.

The government (defra) want honest reponses to the consultation or they would have just gone ahead without ever introducing a seperate consultation with anglers rather than just speaking to the anglers with suits in London. For the record I do wear a suit when I go south but those who have met me probaly realise this is just my way of making sure I dont get mistaken for a suicide bomber.

If you read the questions set by defra and answer them honestly, you are more than welcome to email them to me for comment. I wont change a word just advise on spelling, removal of swear words etc. They want honest answers not bulk replies all saying the same thing.

pm me or email me via this site in utmost confidence...I will help if I can .

The government have heard from "large organisations" who all claim to represent an "unspecified" number of anglers, but they have now asked for the comments from grass roots anglers and i am certain they realise this means they will get grassroots replies...say it as you see it.



Cheers
Dave
 
My own response

My own response

Below is my own email that I have sent to Nicola Clarke at [email protected]

It's not overly complicated (although it took me longer than the 10 minutes Dave mentioned) but you do need to have a a general read of the Consultation paper in order to answer the questions

...

Dear Ms Clarke

Please see my comments below as per the consultation questions.

Question 1 (Section 1, Page 4)

•What are your overall views on the Strategy?
•Does it miss anything?
•Which part would you change and how?

On the face of it appears to address the fundamental concerns among Recreational Sea Anglers. These Anglers want larger fish stocks, better infrastructure with which their sport can be managed and a voice within local and national Government that will respond to issues raised. If indeed this paper goes further then I would suggest that the generalised nature of the strategy goes into greater depth as to what is going to be accomplished and how. The average Angler does not want to read political generalisations; but does want to see black and white answers.

Question 2 (Section 1, Page 4)

•How often do you go angling?
•Where do you mostly go angling? Do you go on angling holidays?
•What sort of angling – shore, own boat or charter vessels?

I go Angling as often as I can, in some cases once or twice a week during the winter months and during the summer I will often go once a week. I do most of my angling from North Shields on the River Tyne up to Northumberland. I also fish whenever I go to the south coast (Bournemouth area) and South Wales. At present I am mainly a shore Angler but I have and will in the future fish from a private boat or charter vessel.

Question 3 (Section 2, Page 5)

•Why do you go sea angling?
•What are the key reasons for your participation in the sport?
•What is the biggest issue for you affecting your angling?

I fish for recreational pleasure and more than often will eat what I catch. I participate because it gets me out of the house and I enjoy it. The biggest issue affecting my angling at present is the proposed sea angling licence and what benefits it will have to me as a potential stakeholder.

Question 4 (Section 2, Page 5)

•Do you agree with the aim and objectives of the Strategy? Which objective do you think is most important?

In principle the aims are sound; but as mentioned earlier any future strategies need to go into greater depth and transparency – not just sound like political rhetoric. The key aim would be “To capitalise on the economic potential of the sport to optimise the economic and social return to coastal economies and society and identify ways to re-invest expenditure to provide further benefits”…but seeing is believing.

Question 5 (Section 3, Page 7)

•How do you think angling needs can be reflected in fisheries management decisions and policy?
•What do you think is the best way to achieve this?

By removing the bias that there appears to be towards the commercial fleet. This can be achieved by appointing regional/national representatives from the Angling community to put forward notions and views.

Question 6 (Section 4, Page 8)

•Which species do you value most?
•What action would you like to see taken to improve these stocks?

I value ALL species of fish. Improving measures would include: Banning fishing practices (commercially) that damage underwater ecosystems. The banning of high grading fish by the commercials. By finding a better way of dealing with by-catch. By the introduction of a golden mile (at the very least) and better policing of the coastline with regard to illegal netters.

Question 7 (Section 5, Page 12)

•If a sea angling licence were introduced and the revenue spent to provide benefits for sea anglers, would you be willing to pay and how much?

I would be willing to pay – the cost is immaterial – but only if I could see the revenue being invested appropriately, and NOT disappear into “the system”

Question 8 (Section 5, Page 12)

•Would you support a bag limit for certain species where there is a conservation need and there are controls on commercial exploitation of the same species?

Yes

Question 9 (Section 7, Page 15)

•What would you spend money on to improve your enjoyment of sea angling?

Better local/national infrastructure with regards to fisheries management – but only if there was an equal voice for Anglers. Improvement of venues and adequate policing of said venues.

Question 10 (Section 9, Page 18)

•What new sources of information are you aware of that are available to build an evidence base? E.g. data on catches, social studies, angling business turnovers, numbers of people going on charter vessels year on year etc
I have limited knowledge as to where these details can be found. I would say that that there therefore needs to be greater transparency with these figures and that they are made easily available to those who seek the information.

I wish to be regarded a stakeholder in this issue and I trust the above is adequate in response to your questions.

If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards

(Name & address supplied)


Please feel free to dissect my own comments should you feel the urge ;):D
 
Ok Tony,
I will own up ...it takes a bit more than ten minutes once you get into it.

It takes 30 seconds to say I wont pay a license...but responses similar to yours are very constructive in terms of feedback.

I have never written a personal response to a consultation because I have been heavily involved with SOS for a few years now and have always been happy that that the official response to previous consultations have expressed my feelings/concerns with a particular subject.

I will be writing a personal response to this consultation because it will directly affect NE anglers and I dont feel any national organisation or anything I have heard said at meetings in London has taken anything into account as far as local anglers are concerned.

I am looking forward to hearing Defra's comments when taken out of their comfort zone and after that meeting I will write a personal response based on what I have read, what I have heard, the meetings I have attended and may then post it here having heard both NE anglers comments and defra's replies. The comments of anglers and defra will also form a basis as to weather to continue fighting for anglers or just go back to enjoying my fishing and leave the political stuff to others.

This may be a good thread to encourage others to post their responses as others may get inspiration as to what they cant find words to say. The problem with that is that people may copy and paste and similar reponses all count as one reply. Same goes for petitions...5000 may sign it but it counts as one reply.

I have asked a tackle shop in teeside who I know has put in a reply if he would put a petition for his customers to sign to the effect of

"We the undersigned object to the introduction of a license fee and would have come to a meeting with defra , but could not make it due to the large travelling distances involved to the arranged meetings" I will take that petition to the meeting...may go in the bin but after spending almost a month trying arrange a meeting in that area I would personally feel justified in the time spent at least trying to set one up.

If anyone else has any comments on the questions raised by defra why not post them here, you may inspire someone on a particular point they have been struggling with. I will do so after the 4th March Meeting and in plenty of time for people to get get their personal/club responses in before the 31st march deadline.

Cheers
Dave
 
I wouldnt pay a licence simply because i realise that if i did i would be subsidisng the scroates who wouldnt bother. unless the licence fee is ££££££ then there would be no money to enforce it!
 
not sure I want to even go here but.....

the consultations questions...

was thinking about putting something together online, think of say 6 concievable answers to each question, so its multi choice so just a few ticks to make, stick a name in, email address, bit of magic to stop them answering twice and hit a button

when the time comes, I could then collate all the answers into a big pile for defra to ignore anyway!

I've got the server resources to handle to and it wouldn't take long to put together

so if anyone can agree on what the multi-choice answers should be for the questions..... I'll put it together
 
Wow...

...so they're hoping to introduce a Sea Fishing license? :confused:

My god, they'll squeeze blood out of the smallest stone these days wont they? :mad:
 
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I don't think it's a case of being polite ;)..but if you are to get your point across to the powers that be you can't very well say "I'm not effing paying coz it's in the magna carta like"...that kind of response will be consigned to the bin and will count for nowt.

Having read it I feel the paper is designed to baffle with all it's jargon etc - which is possibly why there is a certain amount of reluctance among people to offer their opinions.

I like Marks idea of a multi choice scrinson...I'll come up with some answer choices tonight and post them later...
 
so if anyone can agree on what the multi-choice answers should be for the questions..... I'll put it together

are you willing to pay for a licience

1 yes
2 no
3 its nothing more than another tax
4 why should we, you will do nothing to improve fishing
5 sort out the real reasons why the fishing in the uk is so bad before taxing the angler who fishes for pleasure
6 let me drop my trousers and bend over so you can ream me easier
 
think you're right about the general apathy to the whole thing. i think most people think its a done deal and regardless of how they feel a licence will be introduced.
i have just emailed my response to them letting them know my views, just in case.

time to stop the vociforous minority destroying the views of the silent majority.
 
i have posted my views to them yes, not as overtly insulting as i have posted but less in a way likely to upset the suit brigade, however my thoughts are this is just an easy way for the govenment to gain yet more money from those persuing a peacefull pastime, of course you could like me be totally cynical and wonder if the stop smoking adverts and all the rest of the anti situation against smokers has at last had an impact, LOST REVENUE and they need to regain it from somewere else, i really doubt if they have any intention of putting the thoughts,the well being and the catch rates of the humble angler anywhere near the fore front of thier thoughts here in this bill
lets look at the freshwater guys -yes i am one of those lads as well, we pay a yearly licience, and yet you read time and time again about imigrants taking the fish stocks for food, i mean carp, roach anything, and just what happens, a slap on the wrist and sod all else, yet if we get caught doing something amiss then your gears taken and you get your day in court, as an exmerseysider i have seen the bait beds raped by `asians` and the fisheries guy is there saying he cant do diddly squat, because they say its for personal use, boolarks and he knows it, he even said the racism card is played, or they forget they can speak english, now if it was one of us the car would be impounded and we would have to prove our case, the bass size has already been trashed as well, god knows what other bits have been overturned, and this prior to this bill is supposed to enstill us with enthusism for it and be willing to cough up money when we see it being abused time and time again, they have admitted they cant police the seas, oh but they will police us no doubt because we have paid them to watch us !! sorry it stinks like dog crap on a sunny day
 
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