Cheers gwyn may try efish didnt realise tom was that cheap your su was right bargain i realy wanted unground hst evo id consider askiing terry to make me unground hst evo with 8 inch longer butt thats what id realy love but dont know price or timescale or how to go about asking n whether you pay up front , thanks andy i was in last week and bought stnd m427 n t1000 saw su but thought spiggot bit short 19mm for new rod my stnd had 43mm also fellas thought a second hand one may pop up if put wanted out ,guess ill probably use efish