Drift nets and other news

[loopy]

Some interesting news regarding drift nets, 5th paragraph down.


Angling Trust

In UK waters, however, driftnets are used for limited periods on a small scale in some of the most sustainable fisheries in Europe, such as sardines and herrings, though they are also used to catch fish with less healthy populations, such as salmon.

See also: Conservation forgotten as discard ban rules are drawn up, warns scientist

It's now up to you EU members told as fisheries reform gets sign-off

The Commission, which says it is fully aware of the situation in the UK, has told Fish2fork it has no intention of withdrawing the proposal and hopes to have it in place by January 2015. It regards it as a precautionary measure.

It is confident that fishermen will be able to use different types of nets instead and that they should be able to get grants from the European Maritime and Fisheries Fund (EMFF) to help them change their practices.

Helene Banner, Ms Damanaki’s spokeswoman, said the ban is to be introduced on the precautionary principle and that a full consultation was carried out last year in which the “overwhelming majority” of contributors wanted the use of driftnets to be halted.

“This does not mean of course that fishing activities themselves cannot continue,” she said. “To the contrary: fishermen should of course continue their activity, we only ask them to use another kind of fishing gear.

“Our information also shows that driftnets are not used year round, but rather for very limited periods of time – in some cases, we are talking weeks - and during the rest of the year the same fishermen that use driftnets continue their activity with other nets.

“UK Fishermen have shown in the past years that they are keen to adapt their fishing techniques to and are keen to develop also new gear and new techniques in order to help preserve our marine environment. One example is the selective gears developed by the white fish industry in Scotland. This is the way forward and will surely also be possible for the small scale fishermen that have so far used driftnets among other gears.”

She added: “We are not turning a blind eye on UK fishermen: the EU can finance up to 85 per cent of the cost of the new gear. Most of UK fishermen using driftnets have licences to use other gears to target the same species. In the case of herring or mackerel, encircling gears such as ring nets or small purse seines are alternatives used around the world.”

[Stores]

Hi Les,

What's your take on this?

It seems to me that there is no need for a blanket ban on drift netting in an area where no real problem exists, other than, maybe, by catch but that is true of all types of fishing, including RSA. If the problem is confined to, say, the Mediterranean, then surely there can be a more local ruling that solves that issue.

Does the AT support the potential EU ruling?

Will the recent EU election results alter the political will to follow this through?

Might we just see the sinking of nets so as to avoid the potential ruling, so catching fewer mid water fish like sardines, mackerel and herring but catching more codling and bass?

[loopy]

David I believe the term is like all UK organisations, AT is considering its response. This has come out of nowhere and in the North East the net limitation order will stop all T and J netting for migratory fish in the next few years anyway. I guess it will be discussed at the next Association of IFCAs meeting in London. I will keep you updated.

I guess none of us know what will happen in Europe, remember UKIP have 24 seats, 1 in our area, Labour has 20, 2 in out area, Conservative 19, almost an equal spread. Labour seem to be very committed to Europe and we have 2 Labour MEPs for the North East so they must be committed to the European stance and everything it stands for such as the revised approach in European Marine Sites, the Habitats Directive and the Birds Directive to list but 2 that may effect our sport. Remember European directives mainly do not consider socio economics !!

I personally favour a UK regional approach based on the needs and wants of that region including socio economics of the region.

[Stores]

Thanks for that Les. If the T & J type netting ceases over the "next few years" and local north east anglers are not allowed to take salmon or sea trout what will happen to those fish?
I know it sounds a silly question but I came across this response document which, to me, can be translated into "these are Scottish fish and NE commercials shouldn't be catching them"

http://www.asfb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/North-East-Coast-Review-of-the-Net-Limitation-Order.pdf

Does that mean that the Scots are exempt from this EU idea or, as it is an EU idea does that also mean an end to netting on the Tweed, or up at Usan, with their fixed nets along with all the major rivers up the east coast?

If that is the case aren't we giving up our livelihoods and expertise so that the fish can be caught elsewhere (Greenland, Iceland, Norway) and then sold back to us (socio-economics and all that).

[loopy]

Dave, you are not far wrong the Scotts have indeed invested a lot of money and have had several scientific surveys of the fish on a DNA level to try and prove the origins of the fish, unfortunately the DNA results where floored, I do not know the current position.
A Salmon at sea is worth X ,a Salmon up at Coldstream is worth XXXX and supports Ghillie's, keepers and the hotel trade amongst others, this is the part of the Scottish argument. I also understand the Scotts are considering a complete no take policy on rivers in the future.
Scotland has a very different view on Europe and compliance to European Directives and up to now no legal challenge from Client Earth and the MCS on European Marine sites in Scotland.
You know our very own site runs up to St Abbs and does not recognise the border, but we had to legislate under the revised approach up to Marshall Meadows.
Scottish law is also alive and well in England, the Tweed Commissioners have powers on the Tweed (Berwick)and its tributaries in England, they run the netting not the EA and the reason you do not need a Environment Agency licence to fish ant tributaries of the Tweed, that includes Chatton trout lakes as it is fed from that system.
Should the Scotts vote to go it alone it could be very interesting on a lot of fronts and I suspect the reason that very little has been done in Scotland, they especially do not want to upset the commercial sector prior to the vote. I am very supportive of http://www.ssacn.org/ in Scotland, they are very high profile on the political scene. I will be going over to Luce Bay next weekend for the http://www.tagsharks.com/tagging-pro.../sharkatag2014.

[Stores]

Dave, you are not far wrong the Scotts have indeed invested a lot of money and have had several scientific surveys of the fish on a DNA level to try and prove the origins of the fish, unfortunately the DNA results where floored, I do not know the current position.
A Salmon at sea is worth X ,a Salmon up at Coldstream is worth XXXX and supports Ghillie's, keepers and the hotel trade amongst others, this is the part of the Scottish argument. I also understand the Scotts are considering a complete no take policy on rivers in the future.
Scotland has a very different view on Europe and compliance to European Directives and up to now no legal challenge from Client Earth and the MCS on European Marine sites in Scotland.
You know our very own site runs up to St Abbs and does not recognise the border, but we had to legislate under the revised approach up to Marshall Meadows.
Scottish law is also alive and well in England, the Tweed Commissioners have powers on the Tweed (Berwick)and its tributaries in England, they run the netting not the EA and the reason you do not need a Environment Agency licence to fish ant tributaries of the Tweed, that includes Chatton trout lakes as it is fed from that system.
Should the Scotts vote to go it alone it could be very interesting on a lot of fronts and I suspect the reason that very little has been done in Scotland, they especially do not want to upset the commercial sector prior to the vote. I am very supportive of http://www.ssacn.org/ in Scotland, they are very high profile on the political scene. I will be going over to Luce Bay next weekend for the http://www.tagsharks.com/tagging-pro.../sharkatag2014.

Hi Les and thanks for the reply.

Like a lot of other anglers I'm very uncertain what to make of things - not just the future of RSA either on our own patch or country wide, but also who to believe or trust with my support. I don't know a lot about the SSACN (other than it's got the word conservation in there), though I've read a bit about their efforts to use conservation to improve the lot of anglers. It'll be interesting to see which side of the fence they choose should it come to that. Similarly I can't get my head round the AT needing "to consider it's response" Isn't it a representative body that promotes the interests of the RSA? If it is why doesn't it say so? The only bits I see on line these days involve the constant slagging off of the Commercials (although, thankfully, not in the NE) and the continuing attempt to defend the black bream on the south coast. More and more views seem to show them as courting support, influence and thereby funding but with a lack of direction and leadership. Perhaps we need to get Farrage in there.

Enjoy your tagging.

[loopy]

Sussex

Once again Dave you have your finger on the pulse. The issue as I see it is you have to make a choice and not wait until it is to late. The Trust on the Marine side as you can imagine has very little support except from Sussex where it has a large membership, the problem is they have the ear of Government and there is no other channel to voice our opinion, in other words AT have to consider a response as there are very few RSA members to give its opinion.
Sussex membership is high as the trust help stop some draconian bylaws from the local Council, the Bream fishing has been an issue for many years.

[Stores]

Once again Dave you have your finger on the pulse. The issue as I see it is you have to make a choice and not wait until it is to late. The Trust on the Marine side as you can imagine has very little support except from Sussex where it has a large membership, the problem is they have the ear of Government and there is no other channel to voice our opinion, in other words AT have to consider a response as there are very few RSA members to give its opinion.
Sussex membership is high as the trust help stop some draconian bylaws from the local Council, the Bream fishing has been an issue for many years.

But surely the way forward is for the AT to formulate some policies that anglers will sign up for, not advertise for membership then decide what to do. How often in our lifetimes have we signed up for a political principle, of whatever persuasion, only to find that the manifesto is at best altered, at worst a pack of lies (does Cameron's referendum guarantee spring to mind?)

I would want the AT to assure me that they would do all they could to guarantee access to marks and bait, campaign for the status quo to be maintained until cast iron scientific evidence proved the somewhat flimsy theories of "other" groups (Sea grass springs to mind) and to be consistent across all political agendas.

If, at the end of the day, we were beaten by more persuasive groups, by richer groups or through the angling community's own apathetical approach to their sport then at least we could hold our heads up and say we tried. This idea of signing up to the great unknown is beyond me.

[loopy]

Grumpy and disillusioned

I still struggle with the same questions and have come up against so many brick walls, the truth is money, AT is what it is for coarse and game anglers because of money from the EA and government NGOs such as sport England.
We do not pay for a licence, AT in truth have one man for all the Marine matters because there is no funding at all, no membership to support it, so he is chasing himself in ever decreasing circles.

My choice to join after several years was to try and understand the situation and see if I could make a difference on a local level. I think you know the answer to that.

Goal post changing all over the place but at least I get a heads up some times and an understanding, right or wrong. Like most things they have to be by consent and it would appear we are not bothered or prepared to pay as our coarse and game cousins have to.
I was involved with an alternative, RSA-UK but it never took off, for all the above reasons ?

Packing my gear to go and join all the other grumpy old men and go fishing in Scotland. I did try golf once!!

FYI http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/65913

[Stores]

More grumpy and disillusioned

I'm presuming that the message has got to you by now Les. See its been rearranged though. That's the weekend we come back from Ferryden.......so it's bound to be cr@p weather again. Hope them sharks don't take it personally.