HFW Channel 4 Fishfight

I watched the prog and the only thing that appeared not to have been considered was the processing of the catch.
I agree the system at the moment is mad but why could the fish be stored/sorted in a manner that may give them a better chance of going back alive.
It appeared that the whole system was geared to the ease of the sorters and not the welfare of the fish. After all if they can catch and keep the king crabs etc by the ton why cannot it be done on a smaller scale with holding tanks and the fish scooped out and quickly sorted. Then the types and size that cannot be used go back.
Ok there will be costs etc in all this but that can be sorted in some way if the EU still want this system to go on, the science says it must still for fish stocks to recover, then there will have to be method of aiding the fisherman.
But in all this lets not forget that it was the over fishing without care by commercial fisherman that got the seas in this state,i would suggest that they have an agenda and we must balance all sides in this.
NOT just the commercial/money aspect of fishing.
Conservation must also be considered in this debate for a sloution
 
I don't know if this is the right place to post this so if any admins or mods want to move it I'm fine with that; I just want to put my two-penn'orth in on the fish stocks debate/problem.

We have bureaucrats in highly paid positions sitting in offices without a clue what they are doing trying to save our fish stocks by implementing stupid new rules like increasing minimum size limits for fish species; we all know that only results in more and bigger fish being thrown back into the sea dead and unused. Increasing mesh sizes on nets has little or no effect because once the net is choked with fish it doesn't matter what size the mesh is, everything gets stuck in there.
Now; I don't know exactly how the quotas work or what the quotas are, but I'll make up some numbers just to make my point and it is a VALID point.

Let's say that fisherman Smith has an annual quota of 1000 tons of saleable fish; and his boat can carry 10 tons at a time. He goes to sea and throws his nets; hauls them back several times until his 10 ton hold is full. He heads home, on the way sorting through the fish and throwing overboard anything undersized, out of season, or anything he's not licensed for. By the time he's weighed in his catch he only has 5 tons of saleable fish. He needs to do this 200 times to get his annual quota of 1000 tons; BUT he has also thrown back into the sea another 1000 tons of dead fish.

Would it not be better to tell fisherman Smith that whatever comes up in his nets; whatever the size, whatever the species or whatever the season, he has to keep it all towards his quota; throwing nothing back. Now the 10 tons in his hold all counts, and he only has to make 100 trips to sea. There are no dead fish being thrown back into the sea; wasted. Less disturbance to the sea bed, less fuel being used.
Penalties would have to be introduced for any skipper caught throwing anything back.
I know that small fish aren't always what they want for human consumption, but the smaller stuff could be used in animal feed.

This surely is the only real solution to improving fish stocks.

If anyone wants to tell me that I've got it all totally wrong; I'm willing to listen to a better solution; because by throwing back all these dead fish, all we are doing is increasing the seagull stocks!!!

You could also argue that discards benefit the commercial sector!

Look at it this way, fish prices fluctuate due to supply and demand....i.e, the less fish that are landed, the more indemand they are therefore securing a better price for the fisherman and the boat owners.
What would happen if all of a sudden, all the cod that were caught were landed rather than being chucked over the side?....The market would be flooded with fish and the price of cod would tumble therefore meaning the fisherman doesn't make as much money.....How does he then make more money to cover the cost of his trip? Does he continue to discard, artificially lowering the number of fish caught so he continues to make enough money, or does he retain more fish, selling some through official channels with a better price and other fish enter the market through other means, so skewing the number of fish officially recorded and we end up with no real difference to conservation?

I think Hugh did an alright job, but he skirted a the main issue, which is technological creep and destructive fishing practices.
If only he had emphasised more on the under 10m boats in Hastings at the end as a method of best practice rather not condeming trawling and its indescriminate method of catching fish and destroying the sea floor. The fish monger also hit the nail on the head in terms of carbon miles and how he had to now source his cod from Scotland instead of on his doorstep caught in nets with larger mesh size, rather than trawled form the sea bed

Considering the majority of the fish consumed in the UK is White fish, why can't they be targetted by long line like the old days, therefore negating the need to drag nets and tonnes of metal along the sea bed.
Maybe Loopy can clear this up for me, are there alternative methods of catching nephrops such as huge creels akin to what they use on the deadliest catch (albeit with smaller mesh), rather than creating vast swaithes of muddy desert along the sea bed, that only nephrops can now inhabit?

The solution is a return to smaller boats, fish caught in by non-destructive practices so negating the need for discards and the fishermen getting a better price for their fish through a market not flooded with mass caught produce!
 
You could also argue that discards benefit the commercial sector!

Look at it this way, fish prices fluctuate due to supply and demand....i.e, the less fish that are landed, the more indemand they are therefore securing a better price for the fisherman and the boat owners.

like everything else its not that simple, like the fishermen, the buyers are all licenced, you can't just sell to anyone. and the buyers have effectively established a cartel. Prices are woeful compared to what you'll see tesco's charging

Cod at Peterhead this morning was as low as £2.00 a kilo, whole whiting £1.20, haddocks £1.40

thats per kilo, now have a look what mister tesco is marking it up to - cod loin is today £14.67 per kilo in tesco

most of what is sold at auction is a bit of a sham. the big buyers effectively decide between themselves what the prices will be before the auction starts

so the fishermen get screwed again.

I tried to set up a co-operative website for a bunch of skippers last year. Selling direct, boxes of fish, direct from the boat, mail order. Had all the shipping organised, packeted dry ice lining a polystyrene box, overnight delivery etc, £25 would buy a 5kilo box of fresh fish, delivered to your door. all costs covered and the skippers would be getting double what the buyers give them, consumers paying half what the supermarkets charge and getting a much much fresher product

skippers would need only half the effort to get the same revenues. We got jumped on from a great height by DEFRA for acting as an unlicenced fish buyer before it even got off the ground, I was told that a certain company that buys big at peterhead and scrabster had merely made a phone call and that was that

Can we form a licenced fish buying company then - NO, was the answer

too many big businesses using quotas as a commodity to make money, many of the biggest buyers are also quota owners - yet don't own a single boat. go figure
 
without a doubt there is an agenda somewhere but for a TV friendly open it up to the nation first program it's a great start to the debate surely.

Fair play to the skipper of the trawler for allowing the cameras on board as straight away questions can be raised on what "wasn't said or done" just off what was shown on screen last night IE "why not employ less destructive methods??" - even my lass picked up on that one!! :(
 
"his head a heart are in the right place" hugh says about the fisheries minister who couldnt point at simple species!!!!

where is that place his wallet! or up some polititians arse.... born and breed as far from the sea as possible he admits. Stupid brown noser, claims the effort andc areas fished will be intune with conservation, no mentions of how it is possible!
 
Protest

Protest

Having watched the Huw Fearnley-Wittonstall programme last night on the fishing industry in the UK I have got to add my voice to the howl of protest I'm sure will rise from the revelations of the programme. That so much good food is wantonly destroyed is bad enough but to have it implied that it is part of a conservation effort beggars belief. It is as one contributing fisherman said on the programme a moral crime, yet not a 'criminal act under EU law.

I've sent a letter of Protest to our NE region MEP Miss Fiona Hall I think if we clog her in box with protests she should get the message .Her email is address is below


[email protected]
 
like everything else its not that simple, like the fishermen, the buyers are all licenced, you can't just sell to anyone. and the buyers have effectively established a cartel. Prices are woeful compared to what you'll see tesco's charging

Cod at Peterhead this morning was as low as £2.00 a kilo, whole whiting £1.20, haddocks £1.40

thats per kilo, now have a look what mister tesco is marking it up to - cod loin is today £14.67 per kilo in tesco

most of what is sold at auction is a bit of a sham. the big buyers effectively decide between themselves what the prices will be before the auction starts

so the fishermen get screwed again.

I tried to set up a co-operative website for a bunch of skippers last year. Selling direct, boxes of fish, direct from the boat, mail order. Had all the shipping organised, packeted dry ice lining a polystyrene box, overnight delivery etc, £25 would buy a 5kilo box of fresh fish, delivered to your door. all costs covered and the skippers would be getting double what the buyers give them, consumers paying half what the supermarkets charge and getting a much much fresher product

skippers would need only half the effort to get the same revenues. We got jumped on from a great height by DEFRA for acting as an unlicenced fish buyer before it even got off the ground, I was told that a certain company that buys big at peterhead and scrabster had merely made a phone call and that was that

Can we form a licenced fish buying company then - NO, was the answer

too many big businesses using quotas as a commodity to make money, many of the biggest buyers are also quota owners - yet don't own a single boat. go figure


You're right , it's not that simple, but the simple fact is, is that trawling for fish is the single most destructive thing happening to our planet today that is not discussed more openly. The destruction of the Rainforests we can see, under the sea we can't and the consumer is quite happy to bury their head and not look for alternatives!

You're right about the Supermarkets, they do exactly the same with farmers for their produce, with milk effectively sold at a loss by the farmer to the supermarket who then goes on to sell at a profit.
Probably since the advent of the Supermarket has mass produced goods, become the norm, small local shops priced out that would have sold more local produce, reducing carbon miles and having secured a good price for the local small scale fishermen.

The problem we have now is EU subsidies have allowed some fishermen to get bigger, better boats, with all the high tech gear to suck up every last fish in an area, this was partially explained by Professor Roberts last night, when he mentioned these boats seeing an increase in catches, because with all their hi- tech gear, they miss very little!

Look out for the Artisnal fishermen losing out to the big purse seine netters in their quest for tuna tonight!
 
Well done SMOKIE that is exactly the thing to do and I hope you all do the same. Just a few lines, perhaps asking what she is going to do about the problem highlighted by the fish fight campaign by HFW regarding discards.
[email protected]
On the Nephrops Rory you are right,there other fishing methods such as big pots most of the fishery in the NE is out beyond the 6 mile limit and is out of the new IFCA bye law area and it has been discussed at Net Gain The real answer is as always, with government, DEFRA and the newly formed MMO based in Newcastle will have to do what government dictate, the trick is to get public opinion on side (as per the Fishfight) and then let your personal opinion be known to your MP and MEP. We are supposed to live in a democracy but I do wonder sometimes when the European Union come up with policy that I have not had a chance to be consulted on. I guess the final solution is to go with a anti European political party.
Perhaps you could copy the MEP letter to your MP you can get the address from the link below.

TheyWorkForYou.com: Are your MPs and Peers working for you in the UK's Parliament? Hansard++
 
LOL tonights was about Tuna and couldn't help but laugh out loud at the last few minutes when they'd approached an alleged Tesco ship (one of the crew was even wearing a Tesco T Shirt!!)

*African accent* "Oh Yes we catch sharks, Turtle and often Tuna - these are our by-catch" :o

car crash TV if you're a Tesco shareholder :exclam:
 
added the facebook page about a month ago, signed the petition about the same time, pushed an email after reading the email addy
 
funny thing is, the programme tonight is condemning Purse Seine netters for catching Tuna, and then goes on to advocate eating Mackeral, which are either caught in Purse Seine nets or by Pelagic Trawlers that can land well over 1000 tonnes of fish per trawl!!!!
And rather condemn the fisheries over there for catching sharks and turtle in the Indian Ocean, what of all the tope, smoothhound, huss, rays, dogfish etc caught in trawls and purse seine nets in the Atlantic and North Sea?

Jamie Oliver asked us to eat more Coley in the 'Fish Suppers' snippet before the show????? Errr aren't coley caught in the same way as cod in trawls????? so how is that helpful?
 
LOL tonights was about Tuna and couldn't help but laugh out loud at the last few minutes when they'd approached an alleged Tesco ship (one of the crew was even wearing a Tesco T Shirt!!)

*African accent* "Oh Yes we catch sharks, Turtle and often Tuna - these are our by-catch" :o

car crash TV if you're a Tesco shareholder :exclam:

If any one wants to add a bit more pressure... [email protected]

I'm sure he'll be over the moon to get loads of emails
 
...and then goes on to advocate eating Mackeral, which are either caught in Purse Seine nets or by Pelagic Trawlers that can land well over 1000 tonnes of fish per trawl!!!!...

I spotted the same flaw when VT cut to (HFW's Chef) Tim trying to bulk order pre-boned/frozen mackerel fillets for the Chip Shop experiment...

...only one way he's going to get those levels of mackerel fillets at a decent cost - but of course who's to say that off camera he didn't stipluate that it must be line caught...
 
reply-unfortunately pre recorded

reply-unfortunately pre recorded

Dear Mr Adkins



Thank you for your email to Fiona Hall MEP. Fiona will be in touch in due course with a reply.



Best wishes



Judith Fletcher

Head of Office & Caseworker



Office of Fiona Hall MEP

55a Old Elvet

Durham

DH1 3HN



T: (0191) 383 0119

F: (0191) 375 7519

E: [email protected]



NOTE: Information in this email is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you have received it in error please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your system. You should not otherwise copy it, retransmit it, use or disclose its contents unless permission to do so is explicitly stated. Views expressed in personal emails do not necessarily reflect the position or opinion of the Liberal Democrats.









From: mike adkins [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 12 January 2011 8:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: will anything be done ?



hi, as an angler and also a concerned resident of the uk i was appalled at what was shown on the tv last night regarding how much fish is thrown away, as was well pointed out if it was cattle, sheep of poultry discarded at the side of the road there would be absolute uproar , do you as an mep have any views or ideally any action to be taken regarding the squandering of our food stocks







regards mike adkins
 
dragons den idea

dragons den idea

got a plan to reduce discarded fish,

buy a medium size trawler (£750,000 should do it), get appropriate licence etc, follow other trawlers, wait until they haul their catch, agree to pay them a nominal amount for the fish they would normally throw back.

steam back to harbour and sell me fish at local market!! no dead fish dumped into the sea, simples!

would save a fortune on nets, crew, fish finders and fuel! because after all it's all about the money, isn't it?..................


on a serious note, already signed the petition, not sure what it will achieve though, as their isn't a simple solution to suit all, one thing's for certain, marine habitat will be the only loser.

a point missed is that the quota is the maximum amount of fish allowed to be landed, nobody forces the trawlermen to keep trawling untill threy have filled all quotas for all fish, they do this simply to make as much money as possible, simple business.Commercial fisherman complain that lessoning quotas will affect their livelyhood, which obviously is unfortunate, but nobody has a divine right to make a living from the sea, or the land for that matter. skippers who didn't want to take a paycut would have to seek employment elsewhere, as have miners, shipyard workers and thousands of others in trades that have become nearly obsolete
 
a point missed is that the quota is the maximum amount of fish allowed to be landed, nobody forces the trawlermen to keep trawling untill threy have filled all quotas for all fish, they do this simply to make as much money as possible, simple business.Commercial fisherman complain that lessoning quotas will affect their livelyhood, which obviously is unfortunate, but nobody has a divine right to make a living from the sea, or the land for that matter. skippers who didn't want to take a paycut would have to seek employment elsewhere, as have miners, shipyard workers and thousands of others in trades that have become nearly obsolete
A point that i did not miss and pointed out that it is the commercial boys reckless regard in the past that caused the problem in the first place.
I for one do not feel they are the ones that should be once again let loose to rape the sea just because stocks are improving.
I still no reasons or answers to my point that improving the method of sorting and keeping the fish could not be part of the answer.
 
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