Marina
- Thread starter northeast1
- Start date
The Jester
Well-known member
Those periods between anti fouling and the condition of the hull and anodes are impressive Norman....What anti foul do you use, is it the copper enhanced type.
mark
Well-known member
think norman uses the 20knot variety of antifouling whenever possible!!
The Jester
Well-known member
The skeg and rudder set up is the same as my Merry Fisher 635.
northeast1
Well-known member
It is also the same as my Arvor, guess they know best when building them.
Norman
Well-known member
Mark, thats very observant of you , 10 out of 10 ...............
I think due to the skeg being just fastened ON to the keel it is regarded as more of a rope protector than a support or anything else, however , and this is why I said mark very observant, this is the only part of the whole craft that may need some physical maintainence in the next 5 years or so.
I noticed at the last antifoul that the rudder shaft has a bit of sidway slack in the rudder tube as if the tube is beginning to wear, this may have been avoided with a pintle support at lower end.
It's not a great problem with only about a couple of mm play and will be checked over in a couple of years when I next antifoul (the tube exits inside the hull above waterline and the top end forms the thrust retainer for the rudder shaft.) I expect I will remove the skeg, drop the rudder and shaft down, knock the bearing tube (nylon) out and replace with new.
(If I replace it and get another 15 years out of it I`ll be happy)
However hats off mark, well spotted on a potential improvement.
norm
I think due to the skeg being just fastened ON to the keel it is regarded as more of a rope protector than a support or anything else, however , and this is why I said mark very observant, this is the only part of the whole craft that may need some physical maintainence in the next 5 years or so.
I noticed at the last antifoul that the rudder shaft has a bit of sidway slack in the rudder tube as if the tube is beginning to wear, this may have been avoided with a pintle support at lower end.
It's not a great problem with only about a couple of mm play and will be checked over in a couple of years when I next antifoul (the tube exits inside the hull above waterline and the top end forms the thrust retainer for the rudder shaft.) I expect I will remove the skeg, drop the rudder and shaft down, knock the bearing tube (nylon) out and replace with new.
(If I replace it and get another 15 years out of it I`ll be happy)
However hats off mark, well spotted on a potential improvement.
norm
mark
Well-known member
depending on the size of tube, could you not fit a wee cutlass bearing where the shaft exits the tube? should give it a bit more comfort and take a lot more stress than a nylon one. Would worry me that the play on the rudder stock could set up quite a bit of vibration that might not be noticeable, but could have an impact on the laminate/layup. The rubber in a cutlass would absorb that easily
that said the layout must work in general as I've not heard of many (or any really) failures, but I bet the tube would be a bugger to replace it it became over worn
that said the layout must work in general as I've not heard of many (or any really) failures, but I bet the tube would be a bugger to replace it it became over worn
Norman
Well-known member
aye mark, its high on the list of "regular checks" but I feel comfortable its simply a little wear and tear over the period of 11 yrs and I`ll replace if/when it seems to need it. (probably over egging it when I say a couple of mm )
but your comments noted for next "out of water" check
cheers
norm
)but your comments noted for next "out of water" check
cheers
norm
northeast1
Well-known member
Its amazing how a thread about the marina being frozen can turn into the above......great read thou lads
The Jester
Well-known member
Just goes to show that even when there's no fishing going on, there's always something interesting to talk about . I'm going to check my rudder for play tomorrow and hopefully get a few hours uptiding in...
. I'm going to check my rudder for play tomorrow and hopefully get a few hours uptiding in...Ankle-Biter
Well-known member
Just goes to show that even when there's no fishing going on, there's always something interesting to talk about
If you need a second opinion, I'll have a good look and then a bit of uptiding sounds good.
northeast1
Well-known member
Check your water pipes before you fire up your engine as 2 seasons ago i went out in Jan and the impela for the engine was frozen up resulting in a new one required and a couple other bits that needed changing.
Be nice to see a catch or even none catch report.....if you land 200+ cod it may tempt me to go out in winter boating...mmmrrr better make that 300+ after looking outside.
Be nice to see a catch or even none catch report.....if you land 200+ cod it may tempt me to go out in winter boating...mmmrrr better make that 300+ after looking outside.
Ankle-Biter
Well-known member
Speaking of impellers, I recently picked up a "Vintage" outboard engine the other day.
It's become a bit of a hobby of mine recenlty, doing up old outboards.
Anyway I picked up this 1970 Tomos 4hp with a view of it becoming an aux engine for my Wilson Flyer.
After a few hours of adustments, grease and swear words, is now running like a dream, and get this its air cooled so no water pump.
But the weirdest thing of all is no gears, starts then you go, if you want to stop then switch it off.
I now have 7 outboards, the wife is going nuts.
It's become a bit of a hobby of mine recenlty, doing up old outboards.
Anyway I picked up this 1970 Tomos 4hp with a view of it becoming an aux engine for my Wilson Flyer.
After a few hours of adustments, grease and swear words, is now running like a dream, and get this its air cooled so no water pump.
But the weirdest thing of all is no gears, starts then you go, if you want to stop then switch it off.
I now have 7 outboards, the wife is going nuts.
Last edited:
The Jester
Well-known member
Thanks for that advice 
, i've just looked at the webcam and the sea is spot on. 200+ cod Richy HMMM, now there's a challenge 
.
"Been working outside on a building site all week up Ashington, twisting like hell about the cold, and now about to go out fishing in it",,,,the missus says
,,,they just dont understand do they...
, i've just looked at the webcam and the sea is spot on. 200+ cod Richy HMMM, now there's a challenge . "Been working outside on a building site all week up Ashington, twisting like hell about the cold, and now about to go out fishing in it",,,,the missus says
,,,they just dont understand do they...
Norman
Well-known member
Update on Rudder ........
Update on Rudder ........
Just bringing this thread back to the top and adding a bit of an update.
Its now April 6th 2011 the seasons nearly started ........................
Was down at the boat last weekend and ran up the engine turned the prop warmed everything up ...... but, I could feel a little "unbalance" somewhere. Didn't take long to make the decision, after lifting the rear seatbox to wiew top of rudder it could be seen to be vibrating "just a little too much" .... so, no choice really, time for a fix.
I`ve spent the last 5 or 6 months trying to get an answer from Ocqueteau or dealers about this particular problem as in do you have a spares kit? how much? and when can I have it? but always with delays and never an answer, however time had overtaken me and it was time to take the bull by the horns ... remove the old and simply make new... (or miss the start of the season) I`ll worry about how when I get the old bearings out.
Inspection from above showed me that the top bearing was made of white delrin so I expect the bottom would be the same.
Delrin being a good all round material for water laden parts with a low water absobtion rate of 0.9% by volume and good frictionless properties.
(water absorbtion meant that I had to turn the new bearings with an oversize bore to allow it to tighten up (oversize by 0.18mm on a 30mm shaft)
So there it was Tuesday morning Slinky Lifted out and set on blocks (lifted with a minimum of 500mm below the rudder to the ground to allow me to drop out.
First was the removal of the skeg (again to allow rudder to drop) this I had expected to be difficult as it is held on by 2 stainless steel M12 bolts which have never seen the light of day and have 10 years of antifoul over the top ................. after chipping the anti foul away I sprayed with plus gas left for 30 mins then set about with a ring spanner and a socket ... surprisingly Nee Bother ....
At this point by the way I could wobble the rudder sideways some 6mm in the tube.
Next was removal of the steering gear at the top end and the main thrust retainer ... again, surprisingly nee bother at all
At this point the rudder should have been dropping to the block of wood below however it still took a little bit of pursuation from above ... this I later found to be due to the top bearing being still a very good fit.
After finally persuading the rudder down and out from underneath the real reason for the loosness could be seen ................................
not a problem with wear, just one of design..... The top bearing as can be seen below is capped, this cap forms the thrust washer and bearing all in one and ensures the bearing stays at the top of the tube.
(The tube by the way I now can see is parallel with no recess in the ends for the bearings)
The lower bearing had (i believe) been simply glued/glassed/silicon in place which had released and the lower bearing had risen up the shaft/tube to sit just underneath the upper bearing thus no lower bearing was there, hence the slop.
The fix ....
The top bearing was fine and ok to re use, the lower bearing although fine on size I discarded and made a new one with similar dimensions (but allowing for water retention) and added a capped head making it captive.
likewise I c/bored the nylon66 rudder cap to accomodate this to ensure all working lengths remained the same.
Fitted back together with water resistant grease on the rudder shaft and a smear of silicon on the od of the bearings to take up any gap and allow for any expansion.
All fit fine with rudder turning freely and no slop side to side
(I Hope I got the allowances right )
by the way apart from lift out costs etc the delrin cost £20 (although I used only 20% of it) and now eventually I have prices for new parts (at old design) approx £200 plus VAT Plus delivery (of 2 weeks) from France
Just the anti foul to do this weekend and then it's get out there time .........
just a few pics to explain
At Lift out the top of rudder with anti-fouled nylon66 cap (difficult to see anything past this so its all in the dark from here on .... )
The original old set of bearings after removal
My Trusty Mini Lathe ...........
The aftermath of bearing manufacture
Old Bottom bearing and New Bottom bearing with cap
The new bottom bearing into the now counterbored Nylon Cap
The new set ....
Fully assembled and skeg replaced .... ready for anti-foul
I hope this helps any prospective bearing changes anyone may have , It's really not too much bother ....
Mark ..... I did think of adding a pintle bearing on the skeg at this point in time but since there was not really any serious wear then I though any support I gained may be lost in the difficulty of aligning an end bearing (my mini lathe just wouldnt spin the rudder shaft )
cheers
norm
Update on Rudder ........
Just bringing this thread back to the top and adding a bit of an update.
Its now April 6th 2011 the seasons nearly started ........................
Was down at the boat last weekend and ran up the engine turned the prop warmed everything up ...... but, I could feel a little "unbalance" somewhere. Didn't take long to make the decision, after lifting the rear seatbox to wiew top of rudder it could be seen to be vibrating "just a little too much" .... so, no choice really, time for a fix.
I`ve spent the last 5 or 6 months trying to get an answer from Ocqueteau or dealers about this particular problem as in do you have a spares kit? how much? and when can I have it? but always with delays and never an answer, however time had overtaken me and it was time to take the bull by the horns ... remove the old and simply make new... (or miss the start of the season) I`ll worry about how when I get the old bearings out.
Inspection from above showed me that the top bearing was made of white delrin so I expect the bottom would be the same.
Delrin being a good all round material for water laden parts with a low water absobtion rate of 0.9% by volume and good frictionless properties.
(water absorbtion meant that I had to turn the new bearings with an oversize bore to allow it to tighten up (oversize by 0.18mm on a 30mm shaft)
So there it was Tuesday morning Slinky Lifted out and set on blocks (lifted with a minimum of 500mm below the rudder to the ground to allow me to drop out.
First was the removal of the skeg (again to allow rudder to drop) this I had expected to be difficult as it is held on by 2 stainless steel M12 bolts which have never seen the light of day and have 10 years of antifoul over the top ................. after chipping the anti foul away I sprayed with plus gas left for 30 mins then set about with a ring spanner and a socket ... surprisingly Nee Bother ....
At this point by the way I could wobble the rudder sideways some 6mm in the tube.
Next was removal of the steering gear at the top end and the main thrust retainer ... again, surprisingly nee bother at all
At this point the rudder should have been dropping to the block of wood below however it still took a little bit of pursuation from above ... this I later found to be due to the top bearing being still a very good fit.
After finally persuading the rudder down and out from underneath the real reason for the loosness could be seen ................................
not a problem with wear, just one of design..... The top bearing as can be seen below is capped, this cap forms the thrust washer and bearing all in one and ensures the bearing stays at the top of the tube.
(The tube by the way I now can see is parallel with no recess in the ends for the bearings)
The lower bearing had (i believe) been simply glued/glassed/silicon in place which had released and the lower bearing had risen up the shaft/tube to sit just underneath the upper bearing thus no lower bearing was there, hence the slop.
The fix ....
The top bearing was fine and ok to re use, the lower bearing although fine on size I discarded and made a new one with similar dimensions (but allowing for water retention) and added a capped head making it captive.
likewise I c/bored the nylon66 rudder cap to accomodate this to ensure all working lengths remained the same.
Fitted back together with water resistant grease on the rudder shaft and a smear of silicon on the od of the bearings to take up any gap and allow for any expansion.
All fit fine with rudder turning freely and no slop side to side
(I Hope I got the allowances right
)by the way apart from lift out costs etc the delrin cost £20 (although I used only 20% of it) and now eventually I have prices for new parts (at old design) approx £200 plus VAT Plus delivery (of 2 weeks) from France
Just the anti foul to do this weekend and then it's get out there time .........
just a few pics to explain
At Lift out the top of rudder with anti-fouled nylon66 cap (difficult to see anything past this so its all in the dark from here on .... )
The original old set of bearings after removal
My Trusty Mini Lathe ...........
The aftermath of bearing manufacture
Old Bottom bearing and New Bottom bearing with cap
The new bottom bearing into the now counterbored Nylon Cap
The new set ....
Fully assembled and skeg replaced .... ready for anti-foul
I hope this helps any prospective bearing changes anyone may have , It's really not too much bother ....
Mark ..... I did think of adding a pintle bearing on the skeg at this point in time but since there was not really any serious wear then I though any support I gained may be lost in the difficulty of aligning an end bearing (my mini lathe just wouldnt spin the rudder shaft
)cheers
norm
mark
Well-known member
probably a wise move. if the pintle alignment was out the bottom bearing probably wouldn't last long
definitely strikes me as a design flaw overall though. can't cost them any more to lip the bottom bearing to keep it in place
probably a bit late now but PTFE tape around the rudder shaft might have been a good little extra to stick a teflon coating in side the bearing
got lathe envy by the way, been lusting after one of those combined mini lathe/milling machines for a while now
definitely strikes me as a design flaw overall though. can't cost them any more to lip the bottom bearing to keep it in place
probably a bit late now but PTFE tape around the rudder shaft might have been a good little extra to stick a teflon coating in side the bearing
got lathe envy by the way, been lusting after one of those combined mini lathe/milling machines for a while now
