River Tees

[InCodweTrust]

Figures don't add up ?

Figures don't add up ?

I wonder what effects commercial catches of Salmon at sea (wether legal or illegal) are having on stocks? Similarly, how much illegal netting is occurring along the coast? Water quality in the Tees catchment is not too bad, indeed it's improved exponentially since the 80's.
When I was a bairn we had a caravan at Crimdon Dene and I can remember that there more seals then than there are now, so blaming seals alone is being simplistic, seals eat a hell of a lot more fish species than just salmon and trout.
However, if you read this :
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/7183-cefas-report-river-tees.pdf
, it would appear that few salmonids are capable of passing the barrage, and when they are immediately downstream of the barrage, seal predation is exacerbated.
Based on that document, it would appear that the main problem is the barrage - the seals are indirectly benefitting benefitting from the fish being forced to shoal in a small area.

Over fishing at sea is hitting all returning fish, but fish returning to rivers along the same piece of coast follow the same migratory routes from the feeding grounds ....they tend to hug the coastline...so should come under similar pressure from netting. These are the latest figures in T&S mag. lifted from EA fishcounters:

Tyne @ Riding Mill: 30,907 for year...with 7,156 in Oct.

Wear: 12,915.....which is now being seen as poor, when compared to recent years.

Tees:.......380.....with 42 in Oct.
Last years figures were impressive, by comparison ....1,123 fish for the year

The Tees historically, (Long, long time ago!), has as good a pedigree as any of the NE rivers. So what when comparisons are made is the difference?

There is the boast that there is now 3 - 4 fish passes past the barrage....if that is so, and that they are not blocked most of the time ?
Why aren't the fish using them ?
Why are they staying below in a battle field where they are getting annihilated.....fish in the shoal, sense the predation / demise of there number. Combine the instinct to flee from a predator, with the hormone driven need spawn, if there was a truly viable means open to the fish they would use it ??
But they aren't ????

Mel.....

 

[Jeffrob445]

I've been racking my brain to find a valid reason for salmonids NOT using a fish pass, and cannot!. Friends who work purely in Fish Ecology have drawn a blank too.

 

[InCodweTrust]

End Game, final play !

End Game, final play !

I've been racking my brain to find a valid reason for salmonids NOT using a fish pass, and cannot!. Friends who work purely in Fish Ecology have drawn a blank too.

Jeff, I do not claim any expertise, either as a Salmon angler, or Ecologist.
I am just an concerned angler trying to apply a little logic?
The river is almost at the point of no return, and some of the so called experts, organisations with responsibilities, obligations, duties, have seemingly thrown their collective hands in the air, and walked away from the issue blaming each other. This playground mentality, by purported professionals, begs for some serious slapping of the backs of respective legs!
Not one of them is to be seen trying to do anything to preserve this beautiful rivers migratory fish stock. We see the odd token gesture, which when you scratch the surface is no more than PR double speak to cover their failings !

Please feel free to tell me if this basic logic is so far off the mark:

The humble Salmon is a creature largely driven by instinct, and reacts to various conditions by a triggering of those instincts?

So we have a simple creature, driven by a massive hormone imbalance, into a small, restrictive, space, being savagely predated on by every other creature inhabiting that space, be it Grey Seal, Human poachers in their many forms, etc.
Yet it chooses to remain, and play the role of Daniel, in that arena that is 'Wick' with a whole host of 'Belligerent Moggies?'

Would I be wrong in pondering, concluding, that this simple creature:
Can't find the way out ?
Does this simple creature need to get a degree to understand the convoluted path to its salvation, as designed by so called experts? ( Did they truly consider the limitations / requirements of the species, irrespective of cost, we should know? One way, or the other! Open honesty here, may be greeted by a surprisingly positive reception, certainly on my part !).

Or possibly, the way out is such a poor / frightening option, that this simple creature would rather stay put, and play with the big bad kitty's?
If the latter is true, then surely there is a clear case / duty for action by the regulatory body...the 'EA?' to make sure it is put right ?
Are we, 'Again' at the shameful stand off position where the EA was belittled by a threat of counter a litigation? ( It is hard to command, further, respect when you 'Wet yourself' in such a Public way ?).
Thing is, I apologise for the sarcasm, nothing personal, I just get that way when confronted by, what I see as, uncaring inactivity, especially when it's by people holding positions of high responsibility in both private , and public, power, who, have the means, and should be doing everything possible to successfully rectify the problem, but aren't ?
If my thoughts are wide of the mark , I am more than willing to concede that point, and I will readily do so publicly, when provided with the real, and honest, truth about this situation, be it good, or bad?
I just want to see the fish back in the river, in the greatest numbers possible, even if i am banned from chasing them with a rod ?
There is an army of support for the river, which can be both energised, and activated, by some one with the expertise, and drive, who acts honestly in the true interests of the river, and all its inhabitants.

Just as an afterthought.... Given the situation of 'what must be, significantly, low numbers of breeding fish reaching the Redds'. Why aren't the EA carrying out : Electro-netting of fish below the barrage and transporting them to the other side...in the short term ? ( Or is being the 'Placebo' is more cost effective ?).
Why isn't there a stripping, breeding, restocking, program already in place ?
If the answer to that is, 'It doesn't work !'.....Look at the Tyne, and deny it hasn't played a major part in its 'Phoenix like' resurrection!
I am not alone in questioning that research outcome... seeing it as no more than an arrogant, cynical, and blatant, ruse to cut funding.....
Why aren't they making the redds areas, exclusion zones, banning canoeists, anglers, everybody alike, it is only for a small period of the year, giving the fish the best chance to breed in peace ?

'The fish have only a small voice, and sadly, few are listening ?'.

Mel....

 

[Beaky]

Hear hear!!

 

[codcatcher3000]

the fish all have two heads mate.......

if its size does it count as two fish in a comp?

 

[Daysofspeed]

Is it not as simple as:
Not many Salmon born/introduced to the Wear=not many returning to spawn?

 

[m.gray]

2 many seals in it mate

 

[jimlad]

The seals go up above the barrage now and feed on the coarse fish all the way up to Yarm.

The seals go a lot further up than Yarm as well. It's quite frightening when one pops its head up on a calm morning by the river!

 

[jimlad]

Putting salmon aside, the coarse fishing on the tees can be fantastic, with big perch, pike, chub, grayling, barbel, bream etc and some clonking bags of dace and roach

 

[InCodweTrust]

Stocking : Returning adults

Stocking : Returning adults

Is it not as simple as:
Not many Salmon born/introduced to the Wear=not many returning to spawn?

I didn't say it was ?
Just look at the Icelandic figures, the % of returning fish from the breeding /stocking program they run, is in low single figures.
They still believe it has a positive input to the overall Salmon population, and last I heard, they were fighting to continue doing it !
It isn't the be all, and end all, solution to the problems on the Tees, I wish it was that simple !
It can only help, in what must be a multi-faceted resolution.

Thing is....'Any effort that helps is better than sitting back and doing nothing!'.

Certain parties, who have a responsibility to resolve these issues, who would love it if the 'it's not that simple....it's too hard' mentality prevailed.....

Why not take a different approach by presenting a united front asking certain parties....'Yes we accept Stocking isn't the complete answer, but is a small positive step. I need you to explain just what you are doing alongside it?

 

[Lynnzer]

Leaving aside the barrage argument, which by the way I see as the main issue, the question was about actual fishing on the estuary and not the reason as to why fish stocks have dwindled.

I made a series of visits to the river last year. I fished the North Gare 1st time. Casting into the river side of the gare doesn't get you into deep water unless you're a master caster. The other side is better for depth but there's little there of interest to fish in the way of food. There's no kelp, no rocks, only flat sand with an occasional rock. There's also seals hunting the clean ground as well.

If you're going there with a good selection of gear, heavy tackle box, tripod, couple of rods etc you'll be knackered so I'd get a trolley for the trip.

I then fished inland on the stretch up from the gare and about halfway to the power station. Same thing about heavy tackle. Go as light as you can. Indeed the swell isn't significant so leads over 4 oz aren't really needed anyway and a lighter rod would be beneficial. This stretch is also shallow for the casting distances most of us would hit. I'm going to try it again this summer with waders on to get myself out a hundred yards or so then fishing from there.

The earlier comment about the water clarity is pitiful. This is the most pristine stretch of water you'll come across without going up to Northumberland. The sand is almost like a Mediterranean beach and if it wasn't such a struggle to get to the waterside would be as good a place as any for a beach party. It's beautiful there.

That aside, I caught nowt. I did go there with the intentions of turbot fishing. It seems perfect and indeed i even saw a couple of salmon/sea trout leap in front of me but out of casting distance. Like I said, I'm pretty sure I just wasn't getting the depth of water with my elderly casting style.The water shelves off very gradually so waders are a distinct advantage I think.

My next visit was to the outlet pipe from the power station. I fished into the outflow. It was also another blank except for a seal that I foul hooked with a lure. I was trying for bass. I lost a reel full of braid and went home early.

After that I thought I'd try for salmon at the bottom of the barrage. I have a salmon license mind you. Seals. Say no more. They were watching my every move.

So nothing caught but I'm sure there's going to be fish somewhere. I fish for pleasure mainly. If I catch nowt then what the hell...... as long as I enjoy the scenery and occasion that's as good as I need it to be. Sitting on a light beach foldaway chair by the cleanest river I've seen for donkey years, with golden sand and little in the way of interruptions from a myriad of passers by, with views of all the shipping traffic on an incoming tide are worth every moment.

And who knows, one day I might just catch something.

Finally, on the north side of the estuary at least, there's really no good place to fish from. The river stretches along industrial wasteland with very poor access.

 

[nunthorpe mag]

I was a contractor at BSC in the mid 70s and there nowt to do on a night shift so I tried various spots from inside the works and only managed small dabs whiting and crabs
Mind there was one plus at a pumping station, in the filters I used to find lots big rag worm

 

[dabcatcher]

Leaving aside the barrage argument, which by the way I see as the main issue, the question was about actual fishing on the estuary and not the reason as to why fish stocks have dwindled.

I made a series of visits to the river last year. I fished the North Gare 1st time. Casting into the river side of the gare doesn't get you into deep water unless you're a master caster. The other side is better for depth but there's little there of interest to fish in the way of food. There's no kelp, no rocks, only flat sand with an occasional rock. There's also seals hunting the clean ground as well.

If you're going there with a good selection of gear, heavy tackle box, tripod, couple of rods etc you'll be knackered so I'd get a trolley for the trip.

I then fished inland on the stretch up from the gare and about halfway to the power station. Same thing about heavy tackle. Go as light as you can. Indeed the swell isn't significant so leads over 4 oz aren't really needed anyway and a lighter rod would be beneficial. This stretch is also shallow for the casting distances most of us would hit. I'm going to try it again this summer with waders on to get myself out a hundred yards or so then fishing from there.

The earlier comment about the water clarity is pitiful. This is the most pristine stretch of water you'll come across without going up to Northumberland. The sand is almost like a Mediterranean beach and if it wasn't such a struggle to get to the waterside would be as good a place as any for a beach party. It's beautiful there.

That aside, I caught nowt. I did go there with the intentions of turbot fishing. It seems perfect and indeed i even saw a couple of salmon/sea trout leap in front of me but out of casting distance. Like I said, I'm pretty sure I just wasn't getting the depth of water with my elderly casting style.The water shelves off very gradually so waders are a distinct advantage I think.

My next visit was to the outlet pipe from the power station. I fished into the outflow. It was also another blank except for a seal that I foul hooked with a lure. I was trying for bass. I lost a reel full of braid and went home early.

After that I thought I'd try for salmon at the bottom of the barrage. I have a salmon license mind you. Seals. Say no more. They were watching my every move.

So nothing caught but I'm sure there's going to be fish somewhere. I fish for pleasure mainly. If I catch nowt then what the hell...... as long as I enjoy the scenery and occasion that's as good as I need it to be. Sitting on a light beach foldaway chair by the cleanest river I've seen for donkey years, with golden sand and little in the way of interruptions from a myriad of passers by, with views of all the shipping traffic on an incoming tide are worth every moment.

And who knows, one day I might just catch something.

Finally, on the north side of the estuary at least, there's really no good place to fish from. The river stretches along industrial wasteland with very poor access.

fishing at low tide your into a better depth of water and just before you turn up the creek you can cast to deep water as this is where the tankers turn. be very careful here at low as it shelves off very fast. it can drop at 45% from the waters edge and at 3ft out you wont see the bottom.

i was more interested in catching flounders between the estuary up to the barage area.