Common sense should also have applyed at your open,surely it was not suitable to remove prizes from the table just before the presantation started because only a small percentage of the anglers managed to weigh in. In your open leaflet it stated that any przes left over would be raffled off, this i beleive was to encourage unsuccessful anglers to return to the club house and support your main raffle as well as support the social clubs presentation bar. A big own goal ! i think Steve.
Shields open
- Thread starter jim55
- Start date
Common sense should also have applyed at your open,surely it was not suitable to remove prizes from the table just before the presantation started because only a small percentage of the anglers managed to weigh in. In your open leaflet it stated that any przes left over would be raffled off, this i beleive was to encourage unsuccessful anglers to return to the club house and support your main raffle as well as support the social clubs presentation bar. A big own goal ! i think Steve.
shields open
shields open
Just a few points I would like to make, i did not want to comment on this issue, but feel it maybe getting out of hand. The barriers along the cliff tops are for public safety, they are to protect the public from a fall. the cliff top areas are open to the public at all time unless otherwise stated, crossing the barrier is not trespassing, just a risk to your safety.Also river marks have been mentioned (church bank, Hebburn marina for e.g) these are public access areas so no action could ever be taken if lads wait at a mark all night. The Pier is owned by the Port Authority and was a kind gesture by the Harbour Master to allow anglers to access the pier for the open,by opening the pier at 8.00am he was granting permission for anglers to access the pier. before his representative opened the gate it was not open to access so anyone on the pier was trespassing.To add to this the shields club had to purchase public liability insurance to allow anglers to fish the pier as it is private property (Port of Tyne Authority owned). Another point I would like to make is the lad that was disqualified was reported by a fellow angler who had traveled a lot of miles and waited for the gate to open like most anglers, he was not reported by a steward, the angler who reported the lad was very insistent that action was taken by the club, he insisted he followed the rules and waited for the gate to open, the other guy did not wait, therefore breaking the rules.
I am not a member of the shields club but have been involved in organising events in the past, I have experienced the hard work it takes to hold an event of this capacity. It is sad to see the criticism the club are taking after holding what can only be described as a great event attracting 340 anglers. I feel for the lad but the committee were put in a very difficult position. I wonder what comments there would be on here if they had let him take 1st prize for someone then to post he was trespassing.
One final comment, I have been told Somebody has contacted the Harbour Master today complaining about the club and the decision they made, the Master was not happy about the contact, the club has nothing to do with him. He has threatened complete closure of the south pier to anglers at all times if he is hassled any more with this issue.I hope you all realise fishing is banned and has been for a long time from the south pier, he allows fishing at his own discretion, he does not have to do this.
Come on lads lets not let this get out of hand and spoil it for everyone.
shields open
Just a few points I would like to make, i did not want to comment on this issue, but feel it maybe getting out of hand. The barriers along the cliff tops are for public safety, they are to protect the public from a fall. the cliff top areas are open to the public at all time unless otherwise stated, crossing the barrier is not trespassing, just a risk to your safety.Also river marks have been mentioned (church bank, Hebburn marina for e.g) these are public access areas so no action could ever be taken if lads wait at a mark all night. The Pier is owned by the Port Authority and was a kind gesture by the Harbour Master to allow anglers to access the pier for the open,by opening the pier at 8.00am he was granting permission for anglers to access the pier. before his representative opened the gate it was not open to access so anyone on the pier was trespassing.To add to this the shields club had to purchase public liability insurance to allow anglers to fish the pier as it is private property (Port of Tyne Authority owned). Another point I would like to make is the lad that was disqualified was reported by a fellow angler who had traveled a lot of miles and waited for the gate to open like most anglers, he was not reported by a steward, the angler who reported the lad was very insistent that action was taken by the club, he insisted he followed the rules and waited for the gate to open, the other guy did not wait, therefore breaking the rules.
I am not a member of the shields club but have been involved in organising events in the past, I have experienced the hard work it takes to hold an event of this capacity. It is sad to see the criticism the club are taking after holding what can only be described as a great event attracting 340 anglers. I feel for the lad but the committee were put in a very difficult position. I wonder what comments there would be on here if they had let him take 1st prize for someone then to post he was trespassing.
One final comment, I have been told Somebody has contacted the Harbour Master today complaining about the club and the decision they made, the Master was not happy about the contact, the club has nothing to do with him. He has threatened complete closure of the south pier to anglers at all times if he is hassled any more with this issue.I hope you all realise fishing is banned and has been for a long time from the south pier, he allows fishing at his own discretion, he does not have to do this.
Come on lads lets not let this get out of hand and spoil it for everyone.
blackrat
Well-known member
Well said Ray. Totally agree. I fished the Comp and although not directly from the area, I fully understood the rules and regulations. I finished work on the morning of the Comp at 7am and could of done the same as the unlucky Angler, although I chose to go to another mark because I didn't agree with a free for all at 8am at the Pier Gates.
fish fingers
Well-known member
just spoke to my friend kevin moliker who got disqualified from the shields open and he gave me his side of the story as he is not able to post ,he said he and mickey jewit bought thier tickets on tuesday and were not told about any revised rules so they went on the pier to get a spot as they have done for the past years he asked a fellow angler bucky if they were alright to fish and he phoned keith up who said yes they could fish kev and micky said if not they would walk off and come back along but keith told bucky they were allright to fish on as you are aware he caught the big fish on his second last cast b4 the comp ended but 2 fellow anglers from the year b4 who kev & micky found trying to cheat were thier and apparently kicked up a fuss and the rest is history so how can a commitee member say yes you can fish on then when you go back to the way in be disqualified from the comp.i have posted this for kev on his behalf i think i,ve got the key points across for him what he told me as i,m not the best of posters
joethefish
Active member
Revised rules (I REST MY CASE)
Captain Birdseye
Member
Cant believe it was kevin..kevin loves his fishing and i know he was excited about this years open.
i had a conversation with him on friday about the open for some tips.
(kevin im really sorry if you mind me writing the following but now that your name is out there i would like to reduce the possibility that some people may be questioning your motives)
he gave me lots of his time to talk about the fishing and said i may have a canny chance along at a rock ledge around whitburn as i did not fancy a day around the river/pier(doh again).
he told me his plans for the comp and from what he said he did not seem to be one bit aware that this may have caused any controversy. he expected others to be there already at that time, for anglers to be fishing over the top of him or squeezing in next to him - all throughout the day. he said it was to be expected as had happened to him in previous years.
i think this whole thing stinks, the message from the steward to fish, the members mucked up with the wording of the leaflet. no one should really have fished there according to the leaflet to be honest, but the judges overlooked this fact.. the only people who seem to know about the pier being opened at a set time are the club members/fisherman. thing is, this is not a club event and us enthusiasts need to know all the facts too. next year, the leaflet needs to be explicit to avoid any similar incident.
i know that the members had only a short time to make a decision, and we dont know what conversation was had between them, was it a unanimous decision, split, one of them may have made more noise.
whatever went on in there, the prize should have been split and the trophy shared, the sense of ambiguity should have been acknowledged. both of them would have been named open champ..never to happen again mind..
tough luck kevin, your infamy will always proceed you now lol. well done and you caught the best fish on the coast on sunday out of 350 fisherman and we will always remember that!!!
tight lines
i had a conversation with him on friday about the open for some tips.
(kevin im really sorry if you mind me writing the following but now that your name is out there i would like to reduce the possibility that some people may be questioning your motives)
he gave me lots of his time to talk about the fishing and said i may have a canny chance along at a rock ledge around whitburn as i did not fancy a day around the river/pier(doh again).
he told me his plans for the comp and from what he said he did not seem to be one bit aware that this may have caused any controversy. he expected others to be there already at that time, for anglers to be fishing over the top of him or squeezing in next to him - all throughout the day. he said it was to be expected as had happened to him in previous years.
i think this whole thing stinks, the message from the steward to fish, the members mucked up with the wording of the leaflet. no one should really have fished there according to the leaflet to be honest, but the judges overlooked this fact.. the only people who seem to know about the pier being opened at a set time are the club members/fisherman. thing is, this is not a club event and us enthusiasts need to know all the facts too. next year, the leaflet needs to be explicit to avoid any similar incident.
i know that the members had only a short time to make a decision, and we dont know what conversation was had between them, was it a unanimous decision, split, one of them may have made more noise.
whatever went on in there, the prize should have been split and the trophy shared, the sense of ambiguity should have been acknowledged. both of them would have been named open champ..never to happen again mind..
tough luck kevin, your infamy will always proceed you now lol. well done and you caught the best fish on the coast on sunday out of 350 fisherman and we will always remember that!!!
tight lines
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YoursTruly
Well-known member
Let me tell you where I stand regarding this matter.
First and foremost this is my opinion and NOT an official club statement.
Unless you are aware of the whole story then I think it is unfair to judge either the South Shields & District Sea Angling Club or the angler in question.
I was at the weigh-in table and heard the objection being made to a committee member, the objector was told the matter would be dealt with at the end of the weigh-in and when they had all the details.
My first reaction was he went beyond the gates before they were open then he must be disqualified for breaking the rules.
That was before I was given the whole version of events which were as follows:
A club member who was acting as a steward on the pier was approached by an angler who wanted two anglers disqualified for climbing round the gates before 8am when the gates were officially opened by the Port of Tyne Authority.
The steward asked the two anglers if that’s what they had done and they said they had been on the pier since around 6am, doing a spot of fishing, however they packed in fishing before 8pm.
The steward contacted a high ranking committee member via mobile phone and explained the situation he was trying to deal with and was looking for guidance.
The committee member asked if they had stopped fishing to which the steward replied yes they had.
Committee man then told the steward if they had any fish to make sure the tails were cut, the steward said not only had the tails been cut but the fish one of the men had caught was being filleted as they spoke.
The steward then asked what shall I do, committee man replied “let them fish” the steward asked are they going to be disqualified?
Committee man said “no they are not disqualified” and this comment was passed onto the two anglers, who then offered to walk off the pier with their tackle and come back on.
They were told that would not be necessary, so they didn’t.
The angler who was making the complaint was told about the decision and he was not best pleased, he insisted he was not going to let the matter drop and wanted them disqualified.
Just after the competition started another committee man came along the pier and reassured the steward that the two anglers were being allowed to fish and were not going to be disqualified as they had discussed it at the registration.
What happened after the weigh-in at the committee meeting I do not know so cannot comment on how the decision to disqualify was arrived at by the 4 committee men.
What I cant understand is how or why two of the committee in that meeting told the steward before the competition started the two anglers were not going to be disqualified and were allowing them to fish the competition then changed their minds some 7 hours later and voted to disqualified them.
Remember this is only what I have been told and it is NOT an official statement
If the committee man told the steward the two anglers were not being disqualified ( and i have no doubt the steward is telling the truth as he has nothing to gain by not telling the truth) then the club should have stood by that decision and let the result stand
I have read every comment on this thread and it worries me as a Shields club member how the angling fraternity now sees the club.
We always have a post Open meeting to discuss how the event went and discuss how we can improve future opens, trust me this will be the main topic discussed at the meeting and i am sure the members will want to hear the whole story and put matters right.
First and foremost this is my opinion and NOT an official club statement.
Unless you are aware of the whole story then I think it is unfair to judge either the South Shields & District Sea Angling Club or the angler in question.
I was at the weigh-in table and heard the objection being made to a committee member, the objector was told the matter would be dealt with at the end of the weigh-in and when they had all the details.
My first reaction was he went beyond the gates before they were open then he must be disqualified for breaking the rules.
That was before I was given the whole version of events which were as follows:
A club member who was acting as a steward on the pier was approached by an angler who wanted two anglers disqualified for climbing round the gates before 8am when the gates were officially opened by the Port of Tyne Authority.
The steward asked the two anglers if that’s what they had done and they said they had been on the pier since around 6am, doing a spot of fishing, however they packed in fishing before 8pm.
The steward contacted a high ranking committee member via mobile phone and explained the situation he was trying to deal with and was looking for guidance.
The committee member asked if they had stopped fishing to which the steward replied yes they had.
Committee man then told the steward if they had any fish to make sure the tails were cut, the steward said not only had the tails been cut but the fish one of the men had caught was being filleted as they spoke.
The steward then asked what shall I do, committee man replied “let them fish” the steward asked are they going to be disqualified?
Committee man said “no they are not disqualified” and this comment was passed onto the two anglers, who then offered to walk off the pier with their tackle and come back on.
They were told that would not be necessary, so they didn’t.
The angler who was making the complaint was told about the decision and he was not best pleased, he insisted he was not going to let the matter drop and wanted them disqualified.
Just after the competition started another committee man came along the pier and reassured the steward that the two anglers were being allowed to fish and were not going to be disqualified as they had discussed it at the registration.
What happened after the weigh-in at the committee meeting I do not know so cannot comment on how the decision to disqualify was arrived at by the 4 committee men.
What I cant understand is how or why two of the committee in that meeting told the steward before the competition started the two anglers were not going to be disqualified and were allowing them to fish the competition then changed their minds some 7 hours later and voted to disqualified them.
Remember this is only what I have been told and it is NOT an official statement
If the committee man told the steward the two anglers were not being disqualified ( and i have no doubt the steward is telling the truth as he has nothing to gain by not telling the truth) then the club should have stood by that decision and let the result stand
I have read every comment on this thread and it worries me as a Shields club member how the angling fraternity now sees the club.
We always have a post Open meeting to discuss how the event went and discuss how we can improve future opens, trust me this will be the main topic discussed at the meeting and i am sure the members will want to hear the whole story and put matters right.
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wheres the fish?
Well-known member
If what you say is true mate then the bloke who should have won have been stripped of his title due to 2 anglers annoying committee members so much that they gave in. Personally I think the two lads disqualified have done nothing wrong, all they did was secure their spot. But this matter has been dealt with and i can see why the decision was made, I just think in this case it was the wrong call to make.
No offense to S.Shields club Intended. And i know you guys went through allot of hassle getting the Pier open. And the disqualification was made due to the anglers technically trespassing. But the competition didn't technically start till 11am so during competition hours these lads were not trespassing at all. They were legitimately on the pier they were covered by public liability insurance that S.Shields club had purchased. So During competition times these lads were legit. Now making your decision on anglers 'Trespassing' before competition hours a tad strange. The lads really could only been in breach of the rules if the pier was closed to anglers during the times of the competition.
But that's just how i see it. Many of you may disagree, but everyone looks at this from a different perspective.
As for the bit in bold what does that mean... That's open to discussion. Why was it being dealt with after the lad had weighed in? If he only had a 1lb fish would it have been a different story?
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Captain Birdseye
Member
an honest response from a shields member is encouraging, thanks for that post yours truly...
i smell POO in great abundance, and there are only two people left in the room. dont worry though you two, im sure 'the board' will be giving one of you (or both) the vote of confidence in the press soon :yltype:
i smell POO in great abundance, and there are only two people left in the room. dont worry though you two, im sure 'the board' will be giving one of you (or both) the vote of confidence in the press soon :yltype:
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fish fingers
Well-known member
well said terry i just more or less wrote as i was told and kev will back this up and he said after reading the post it was alright
I'm normally a browser in these forums. But felt to air my opinion on this matter. If what was true from Yours Truly's post then there should not have been a disqualification, the matter was resolved and dealt with at that time.
The gates should have never been closed once the entrants had entered the pier.
To save all this agro from future comps, all entrants should go to the New Crown and recieve their peg and or restrict the fishing to a stretch of water, ie Sandhaven Beach.
Some mistakes were made, lessons should be and hopefully learnt from this experience.
The gates should have never been closed once the entrants had entered the pier.
To save all this agro from future comps, all entrants should go to the New Crown and recieve their peg and or restrict the fishing to a stretch of water, ie Sandhaven Beach.
Some mistakes were made, lessons should be and hopefully learnt from this experience.
Anybody who wished to leave the pier before 3:45 had to climb around the gate. Likewise anglers who started elsewhere for the first hour or so of the match had to climb around the gate to gain entry to the pier.a few of these I know well and collected prizes from the table. What is the difference between that and the lad who should have won?
neil1964
Well-known member
Well, what a mess. I have read this thread and the other one completely and can see all sides of the argument. I wasn't fishing the comp and not involved with SS club in any way so I am basing my conclusions on what i have read to-date. It seems to me that a few things went wrong.
1. The club rules did not quite cover the unusual scenario whereby the gates were closed to the public but not to anglers.
2. The lad who was disqualified gained an advantage by technically trespassing before the pier was open officially open. This cannot be compared to say, someone picking their spot early at Church bank or the Walkway as they are open to everyone 24/7.
3. If what was previously suggest occurred, whereby a committee member gave inaccurate advice about being allowed to still fish there, that is a blunder by that/those committee member/s.
4. A "collective" committee decided that the angler had broke the rules. Individual committee members rash decision making earlier that day could not be upheld, so they had to grit their teeth and make tough (and correct) decision to disqualify him.
To be honest, i feel it was tough call for SS club and their rules probably need scrutinising for next time as the wording didn't quite fit for the pier on that day.
I have not read the rules by the way(so i may be wrong), just trying to make sense of what has been said on here.
I still think SS club need a pat on the back for holding the event in the first place.
1. The club rules did not quite cover the unusual scenario whereby the gates were closed to the public but not to anglers.
2. The lad who was disqualified gained an advantage by technically trespassing before the pier was open officially open. This cannot be compared to say, someone picking their spot early at Church bank or the Walkway as they are open to everyone 24/7.
3. If what was previously suggest occurred, whereby a committee member gave inaccurate advice about being allowed to still fish there, that is a blunder by that/those committee member/s.
4. A "collective" committee decided that the angler had broke the rules. Individual committee members rash decision making earlier that day could not be upheld, so they had to grit their teeth and make tough (and correct) decision to disqualify him.
To be honest, i feel it was tough call for SS club and their rules probably need scrutinising for next time as the wording didn't quite fit for the pier on that day.
I have not read the rules by the way(so i may be wrong), just trying to make sense of what has been said on here.
I still think SS club need a pat on the back for holding the event in the first place.
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Oblickta
Well-known member
I didn't fish the comp but have read all the posts and can see both sides of the arguement. Normally I wouldn't comment cos I wasn't there but there's something niggling in the back of my mind that's worth mentioning.
The lad was disqualified because he had an unfair advantage by getting on his mark before the others who waited for the gate to open! If this decision stands then surely the people who camped on their marks overnight should also be disqualified for having an unfair advantage unless they had permission off the land owner or local authorities to camp as they have no legal right to do so without permissions!
The lad was disqualified because he had an unfair advantage by getting on his mark before the others who waited for the gate to open! If this decision stands then surely the people who camped on their marks overnight should also be disqualified for having an unfair advantage unless they had permission off the land owner or local authorities to camp as they have no legal right to do so without permissions!
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shields pier the open what a farse
shields pier the open what a farse
Well after reading what Terry and Stan said well done Terry & Stan for putting on your coments. So it turns out it was the fault of committee members yet at the wiegh in where told you are disqualified and to come on the forum and quote read the bloody rule's, but I have to admit it must have been hard for the commitee to come to the decision that they did. But due to a commitee members instructions the anglers were allowed to fish the pier, so it was not the anglers at fault it was the commitee members. so what next l still say kev should of been awarded some thing as he did the right thing by asking a committee member if it was ok to fish as kev said we have done this every year getting up the pier early and what about all those angles who had taken a prize from the table were are you. Now what l would of liked to know what the reaction of othe anglers on the day would have been if they had heard the full story as what ive been told is at the wiegh in all that was siad is they where on the pier befor the gates open like l said what a farse. we have all heard of the saying you learn by your mistakes but after 63years come on
shields pier the open what a farse
Well after reading what Terry and Stan said well done Terry & Stan for putting on your coments. So it turns out it was the fault of committee members yet at the wiegh in where told you are disqualified and to come on the forum and quote read the bloody rule's, but I have to admit it must have been hard for the commitee to come to the decision that they did. But due to a commitee members instructions the anglers were allowed to fish the pier, so it was not the anglers at fault it was the commitee members. so what next l still say kev should of been awarded some thing as he did the right thing by asking a committee member if it was ok to fish as kev said we have done this every year getting up the pier early and what about all those angles who had taken a prize from the table were are you. Now what l would of liked to know what the reaction of othe anglers on the day would have been if they had heard the full story as what ive been told is at the wiegh in all that was siad is they where on the pier befor the gates open like l said what a farse. we have all heard of the saying you learn by your mistakes but after 63years come on
Bit cruel like if the guys offered to walk off with their gear and then back on and were told there was no need.
