Digging at boulmer

[codman56]

First of all I don’t agree if someone digs next to the boats that is wrong as far as the bylaw goes it is very misleading if you read it right they cannot enforce it. any fisherman has the right to dig bait anywhere on that beach
if you were to look in to it diggers have more right to be on the beach than people taking their dog for a walk or even taking your kids onto the beach to play.
The bylaw say the only people allowed on the beach are the land owner, people who have a licence from the land owner , and people who have a right to be there and that is where anglers fit in. The government had to include these 3 categories so that it could be passed as a lawful document

 

[billynobaits]

Thez mare worm in me back garden...and the bigga!

 

[Charlton]

First of all I don’t agree if someone digs next to the boats that is wrong as far as the bylaw goes it is very misleading if you read it right they cannot enforce it. any fisherman has the right to dig bait anywhere on that beach

you are right in one respect, a byelaw can not be used to stop people digging altogether but the bye law at Boulmer can stop people digging in certain areas i.e. around the boats.

if you were to look in to it diggers have more right to be on the beach than people taking their dog for a walk or even taking your kids onto the beach to play.

yes you are right anglers have a proven right to be on the beach, whereas the general public do not

 

[g-force]

I was always under the impression that all land between the high & low watermarks was the property of the Crown, and that any restrictions placed on any of this part of the coastline could only be achieved with the consent of the Crown. For example, the total closure of a stretch of beach for use by the MOD for example would have the backing of the Crown Estates.

I'm not sure how far the authority of local councils etc. reaches: for example the banning of dogs on certain beaches? Likewise, any restrictions on bait collecting could not be imposed by a conservation group for example, without such consent? I'm afraid the whole issue is a rather grey area to me, but I do know that the court case a few years back against several anglers for "disturbing lugworm" or some such legal tosh, brought by a local authority, was defeated in court, largely due to the efforts of Tony Anderson I believe. As Alan has pointed out in the past, anglers being told they can't gather bait at Newton have every right to do so, despite being told by National Trust people that they can't.

So I'm guessing that the restrictions at Budle Bay and Holy Island are well established legally; but as for those that people are trying to impose elsewhere, I'm afraid that I'm really none the wiser.

Gary

 

[dabcatcher]

the problem comes when someone does dig around the boats and really upsets the wrong people or causes an accident.

then ...all digging .... will be banned.

i would say respect what you have and dig in peace or risk loosing it for a couple of extra worms.

 

[Charlton]

the problem comes when someone does dig around the boats and really upsets the wrong people or causes an accident.

then ...all digging .... will be banned.

i would say respect what you have and dig in peace or risk loosing it for a couple of extra worms.

been trying to get that across for years, it's the Duke of Northumberland that is letting us dig at Boulmer, but if things do get worse this could change. there is a great deal going on about our coastline at the minute and a lot of new bodies have been formed to discuss all matters, we will have to wait and see.

 

[northeast1]

First of all I don’t agree if someone digs next to the boats that is wrong as far as the bylaw goes it is very misleading if you read it right they cannot enforce it. any fisherman has the right to dig bait anywhere on that beach
if you were to look in to it diggers have more right to be on the beach than people taking their dog for a walk or even taking your kids onto the beach to play.
The bylaw say the only people allowed on the beach are the land owner, people who have a licence from the land owner , and people who have a right to be there and that is where anglers fit in. The government had to include these 3 categories so that it could be passed as a lawful document

It is a difficult one, i dont dig bait nor do i have a boat there but some respect in my opinion should be shown to the boat owners, if someone is trying to launch the boat and they fall in a trench a bait bigger has made right next to the boat it could be fatal.

I mean boats have more right on the water than shore fisherman as we pay insurance and fee's to use the water ways ege port of Tyne, if we all went 5 ft off the pier and cut every anglers lines it would not be nice for the anglers but respect means most keep a good distance away.

Live and let live share what we have or everyone may end up missing out.

 

[northeast1]

Not that i really care but Port of Tyne owns the water way i was using as an example and i pay them to use it, anglers do not, as for up there i dont care but this issue has been going on for years and soon it will end up being banned like alot of other beaches...or dug out whatever comes first.

TBH i am shocked we still have worms there, they get a good pasting 12 months of the year now, a spot i go in Scotland Skate fishing, you cant drop a 2p coin with out it hitting a worm cast as far as the eye can see but no one digs it is protected.

 

[northeast1]

need to get your facts right the port of tyne dont own the water,and how much do you pay them a year,,,nothing thats how much you pay your mooring fees and insurance,and the way some boats come in the river surprised the shore anglers have not smashed windows ,before you say it not taring all boat owners the same,your right about worms disgrace

From the Port of Tyne web site...all craft must register and pay a fee see below....

Small Boats
A small craft registration and licensing scheme is operated by the Port of Tyne. This scheme seeks to ensure that all small craft operating on the River Tyne can be identified. The scheme provides the Port of Tyne with details of owners so they can be contacted in the event of an incident involving a particular craft.

All craft must be licensed on payment of the appropriate fee and the licence displayed in a conspicuous position on board the craft. Vessel details and ownership are updated annually for the fee. For an application form and further information please email: Harbour Masters Office.

Only going off the Port of Tyne info pack and the statment from the Royal Quays that states your license is part of the package you pay for at the marina.


Some boats do go very close thou not seen any in 2012, mainly jet ski's or the training rib's, fishing boats all knwo better.

 

[g.ordon]

I thought the PTA were an independant organisation commissioned by the government to run the waterways on their behalf.

 

[northeast1]

God knows and to be honest unless they shut it down to fisherman and private boats who cares

 

[g.ordon]

God knows and to be honest unless they shut it down to fisherman and private boats who cares

It won't make much difference caring anyway if they do it as they'll have the authority to do it if they do it.

 

[codman56]

Hi Alan the bylaw at Boulmer can’t stop you digging by the boats but common sense should As the law stands at the moment you can’t be stopped for digging there, if it was made a place of scientific interest then this might change things why do you think that the council can’t get a bylaw passed to stop you digging there as in my first post the land owner, people who have a licence from the land owner , and people who have a right to be there can dig I know this to be true as a couple of years ago Alnwick council took me to court for digging there after 6hr of points of law it was judged that there was no case to answer so dear no how much money they had to pay in costs so unless the law changes then I can’t see anyone else been taking to court

 

[Red5]

been trying to get that across for years, it's the Duke of Northumberland that is letting us dig at Boulmer, but if things do get worse this could change. there is a great deal going on about our coastline at the minute and a lot of new bodies have been formed to discuss all matters, we will have to wait and see.

All too true Alan.

As you say there is a lot going on at the moment with regards MPA's etc, and the rumblings coming from these groups is how angling is seen as quite an anti social past time due to a minority.
I myself have heard about the rubbish left on local landmarks by anglers and I have seen for myself the wanton destruction caused by some diggers at Boulmer who appear to be digging for utility companies rather than digging worms for a fishing session.
Local fishermen have been threatened with violence when they have politely asked for the diggers not to dig around the boats and there are often dogs running riot whilst the owners are digging...The Boulmer Fishermen launch around the tides so if they end up getting stuck in a trench that they do not see at 3am, would peoples perception of the issue remain the same?

Isn't not sensible to consider that the mature worms that are left around the boats also contribute to the migration of juvenille worms that they produce, to the area where it is permitted to dig?
Just as has been shown with immature cod reproducing and not on the scale that mature fish do.

With everything that is going on behind the scenes, if our sport is continued to be blighted by the few who think they can do as they please because of thousand year old rights of way etc, then don't say you weren't warned!

 

[codman56]

if you look at any beach where worm digging has been stopped you can see in a couple of years the worm population is not as strong as it used to be the worms get frail and smaller this might be as worms are no longer taken from the beach the population gets bigger there is not enough feed for them all

 

[Red5]

if you look at any beach where worm digging has been stopped you can see in a couple of years the worm population is not as strong as it used to be the worms get frail and smaller this might be as worms are no longer taken from the beach the population gets bigger there is not enough feed for them all

From my perception of biology, the fact that the worms are smaller would be more to do with the previous gene pool being diminished.

In nature it is survival of the fittest/biggest/strongest so evolution of a strong gene pool would continue that factor.
Take out the biggest, strongest etc from the previous generation and you have a smaller, weaker species and if the pressure on this continues over generations then who knows.

I can't remember the last time I dug worms the size I used to get in the 80's and 90's at Boulmer....

Is digging banned further down the coast, if not then what are the quality like of the worms from these areas. I often wonder what draws people to do a 100 mile round trips if there are not worms closer to home, and if there are not worms closer to the towns then what has happened to them?

 

[dabcatcher]

if there are not worms closer to home, and if there are not worms closer to the towns then what has happened to them?

hammered

in Hartlepool all of our lug beds [and all our beaches were full of them] dissapeared when they stopped pumping raw sewage onto the beaches.

 

[loopy]

The current situation in Northumberland is complicated as it is elsewhere. I do not intend as I have done in the past give you a long and detailed answer if you want that PM me. Our coastline is covered by a complex structure that includes
SSI, RAMSAR, SPA, SAC, EMS, PMCZ. Then we have all the EU directives that drive most of it, the new Marine Act that gives the MMO and IFCAs new powers.
Mix this all in with some fundamental rights such as The collection of intertidal ‘sea fish’ (fish, molluscs and crustaceans) is a public right – an integral part of the inalienable right to fish in tidal waters, and is open to everybody. This right is usually extended to allow the public to collect shellfish (molluscs and crustaceans) from the exposed foreshore, provided that they have a right of access to the shore. The public right to fish may be regulated under byelaw, but not extinguished. (bait digging area given in mitigation of Budle bay and other parts of Holy Island very generous, not) Exceptions are where these rights have been transferred to the owner of the shore (usually by pre-Magna Carta grant in England) or severed from the public fishery by Several Order .
The public right to collect bait worms is ancillary to the public right to fish and is limited to personal use only (Anderson v. Alnwick District Council). There is no legal right to take worms commercially without the permission of the landowner. An exception may occur where private rights over certain areas of the shore exist, either by grant from a landowner or by local custom following extremely long and continuous use of an area by a clearly identifiable group of people. Such customary rights are rare and very difficult to prove. In practice, it is extremely difficult to differentiate between personal and commercial bait collectors on the ground, making this legal distinction unhelpful. Much of North northumberland foreshore is owned by Northumberland Estates and Howick Estates and with new powers granted under the Marine Act NORTHUMBERLAND IFCA could regulate bait digging not ban it. Yes it is a myth about the Magna Carta if anyone wants a translated copy to look for themselves PM me, all established rights are pre Magna Carta.
Things are happening very slowly but happening nonetheless. Alnwick District Council is no more so it has become a worthless County Bye law the other bye laws come from Natural England under the National Nature Reserve, Lower Newton is leased by the National Trust from the Duke and then later leased the foreshore below the level of the low water mark from the Crown Estates I believe they have a generic bye law that failed on a attempted prosecution in 1983 but have not seen it or indeed can I find it., they do however have powers.

 

[Red5]

The current situation in Northumberland is complicated as it is elsewhere. I do not intend as I have done in the past give you a long and detailed answer if you want that PM me. Our coastline is covered by a complex structure that includes
SSI, RAMSAR, SPA, SAC, EMS, PMCZ. Then we have all the EU directives that drive most of it, the new Marine Act that gives the MMO and IFCAs new powers.
Mix this all in with some fundamental rights such as The collection of intertidal ‘sea fish’ (fish, molluscs and crustaceans) is a public right – an integral part of the inalienable right to fish in tidal waters, and is open to everybody. This right is usually extended to allow the public to collect shellfish (molluscs and crustaceans) from the exposed foreshore, provided that they have a right of access to the shore. The public right to fish may be regulated under byelaw, but not extinguished. (bait digging area given in mitigation of Budle bay and other parts of Holy Island very generous, not) Exceptions are where these rights have been transferred to the owner of the shore (usually by pre-Magna Carta grant in England) or severed from the public fishery by Several Order .
The public right to collect bait worms is ancillary to the public right to fish and is limited to personal use only (Anderson v. Alnwick District Council). There is no legal right to take worms commercially without the permission of the landowner. An exception may occur where private rights over certain areas of the shore exist, either by grant from a landowner or by local custom following extremely long and continuous use of an area by a clearly identifiable group of people. Such customary rights are rare and very difficult to prove. In practice, it is extremely difficult to differentiate between personal and commercial bait collectors on the ground, making this legal distinction unhelpful. Much of North northumberland foreshore is owned by Northumberland Estates and Howick Estates and with new powers granted under the Marine Act NORTHUMBERLAND IFCA could regulate bait digging not ban it. Yes it is a myth about the Magna Carta if anyone wants a translated copy to look for themselves PM me, all established rights are pre Magna Carta.
Things are happening very slowly but happening nonetheless. Alnwick District Council is no more so it has become a worthless County Bye law the other bye laws come from Natural England under the National Nature Reserve, Lower Newton is leased by the National Trust from the Duke and then later leased the foreshore below the level of the low water mark from the Crown Estates I believe they have a generic bye law that failed on a attempted prosecution in 1983 but have not seen it or indeed can I find it., they do however have powers.

Thanks Les