went down to cambios with the binoculars yesterday morning about a 3/4 of a mile off the rock edges there was eight pleasure fishing boats and one trawler dragging its nets up and down the sea bed all within an area of a mile when you see that you think the fish have,nt a chance of recovery , or am i wrong , jamcod
fish no chance
- Thread starter jamcod
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The Great Wallsendo
Well-known member
I personally think the amount of fish that private boats take is negligible in comparison to a commercial netter...just my opinion
ya could be right wallsendo but how many pleasure boats are out around the coast even today there was more boats out today fishing the same area one fella i talked to said his mates boat had twenty cod taken in the morning never mind all day , in my opinion the cod will never recover (if they lived on land there would be no go zones all over the country ,) cheers jamcod
The Great Wallsendo
Well-known member
By my crude, estimated maths the average weight caught by ALL of the small, private boats in the N/East would probably only equate to the total haul of one trawler over a year...
If you're going to play the environment card then a hook and line caught fish is not destroying any of the marine environment below it. It is also very specific in that only larger fish are targeted and caught - there is NIL bycatch and wastage. All small fish/juveniles are returned.
My feelings are this (and they have changed recently) Cod are still about in reasonable numbers...you only have to look at the boat catch reports to see that...99% of the fish caught so far this year have been within a mile of the shore - so they're not that far away.
If they were being caught ten a penny from the beach would there be this outcry? more than likely not...
I'm not saying that Cod aren't in decline and that N/E Cod fishing hasn't "worsened" in the last 20 years...but it seems a small boat owner who's bagging up is an easy target to pin point a problem caused mainly by the commercial sector
If you're going to play the environment card then a hook and line caught fish is not destroying any of the marine environment below it. It is also very specific in that only larger fish are targeted and caught - there is NIL bycatch and wastage. All small fish/juveniles are returned.
My feelings are this (and they have changed recently) Cod are still about in reasonable numbers...you only have to look at the boat catch reports to see that...99% of the fish caught so far this year have been within a mile of the shore - so they're not that far away.
If they were being caught ten a penny from the beach would there be this outcry? more than likely not...
I'm not saying that Cod aren't in decline and that N/E Cod fishing hasn't "worsened" in the last 20 years...but it seems a small boat owner who's bagging up is an easy target to pin point a problem caused mainly by the commercial sector
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boblydon
Well-known member
Well said Tony, having been fishing both shore and boat on the mainly on our local coastline for the past 34 years ( do i now feel old or what ), there no doubt about it that it is harder to catch fish now than when i started all them years ago, yes you do have the very occasional good catch but its very very rare, we as anglers catch such a small amount it does not, in my opinion make the slightest difference to fish stocks.
What does of course does is the commercail fleet wether they be english or foriegn, they now come into the shoreline area far to often and scoop up every mortal thing in their nets, what chance do fish stocks have...NONE !!!
What does of course does is the commercail fleet wether they be english or foriegn, they now come into the shoreline area far to often and scoop up every mortal thing in their nets, what chance do fish stocks have...NONE !!!
mark
Well-known member
not sure, but if they were trawling that close in they were probably fishing illegally, pretty sure you've got to be a good bit further out for trawing
here's a thought though, playing devils advocate here a bit. There's been plenty argy bargy on here over the years when someone mentions bass from a specific location, out come the commercial gill netters and so on
so today it looks like there's commercial activity in the areas where there's been some very good cod catch reports in the last couple of weeks.... connected perhaps??
I know some shore only anglers get a bit miffed reading about boats hauling 20 30 or 40 cod of a weekend, I'd guess a good private boat, maybe gets half a dozen or so red letter days like that year, so maybe 1 to 200 cod taken
There's some shore anglers that are out virtually every day in the winter, and most weekends in summer, maybe only taking one or 2, add those numbers up and its not an insignificant number of cod, especially when shore anglers out number boats many times over
add both the cod take from shore and boat anglers together and it is nothing to what a decent pair trawling outfit can do in an afternoon
I do understand how some shore anglers can get miffed reading of huge hauls being taken, maybe there's a bit of envy in there, maybe its genuine concerns over stocks, but either way the damage to stocks is not done a mile or 2 off the shore its done 40 50 or 60 miles off
here's anothe question then, there's obviously plenty of cod a mile off, but there's very few in range of the shore. maybe there's nothing left in sufficient numbers in their food chain close in to attract - think boulmer and how little worm & shellfish there is there now compared with 30 years ago, or the vast amount of peelers that get taken from the estuaries?? just a thought
here's a thought though, playing devils advocate here a bit. There's been plenty argy bargy on here over the years when someone mentions bass from a specific location, out come the commercial gill netters and so on
so today it looks like there's commercial activity in the areas where there's been some very good cod catch reports in the last couple of weeks.... connected perhaps??
I know some shore only anglers get a bit miffed reading about boats hauling 20 30 or 40 cod of a weekend, I'd guess a good private boat, maybe gets half a dozen or so red letter days like that year, so maybe 1 to 200 cod taken
There's some shore anglers that are out virtually every day in the winter, and most weekends in summer, maybe only taking one or 2, add those numbers up and its not an insignificant number of cod, especially when shore anglers out number boats many times over
add both the cod take from shore and boat anglers together and it is nothing to what a decent pair trawling outfit can do in an afternoon
I do understand how some shore anglers can get miffed reading of huge hauls being taken, maybe there's a bit of envy in there, maybe its genuine concerns over stocks, but either way the damage to stocks is not done a mile or 2 off the shore its done 40 50 or 60 miles off
here's anothe question then, there's obviously plenty of cod a mile off, but there's very few in range of the shore. maybe there's nothing left in sufficient numbers in their food chain close in to attract - think boulmer and how little worm & shellfish there is there now compared with 30 years ago, or the vast amount of peelers that get taken from the estuaries?? just a thought
Graham B
Well-known member
My feelings on the matter is that rod and line recreational fishing is a selective form of fishing. As is long lining for fish, all forms of trawling except with large mesh nets is indiscriminate and not selective at all. I know if a small cod is belly hooked you can't put it back but that applies from the shore as well as boat. I have in the last two weeks saw a huge number of cod under 60cm dumped by whitefish trawlers as they were not top grade and they were only keeping top grade. Where is the conservation in that? The sheer number of cod that are caught by say a pair team of trawlers is huge, I counted 450 in one tow of which 350 were dumped back into the sea dead for the aforementioned reason! I think the number that anglers catch is worth mentioning and bringing up but it is miniscule compared to what is taken commercially and our fish are eaten not dumped!
Graham.
Graham.
Graham B
Well-known member
Just another thought, is it better to keep the smaller juvenile cod or the larger spawning size? The small cod may not get the chance to spawn due to predation, illness or whatever but the large cod is already that size so would it be better to keep the small fish and return the larger ones? The choice is yours!
Graham.
Graham.
Mike.Haley
Well-known member
I believe all boats, wether they be commercial fishermen or pleasure anglers, should be limited to a set number of fish per day. Commercial boats should only be allowed to fish with large mesh nets so they leave the smaller fish and there should be a limited distance set to keep them away from inshore waters. This is the only way fish stocks are going to recover. I personally dont eat any fish so I fish and only keep one for the wife.
SIXFOOTSTEVE
Well-known member
As I've said before any big fish meaning double figures will be photographed and released with pleasure ,speaking personally of course .
I know it's been said earlier but I have to say it again ,pleasure fishermen will put back the undersize fish to fight another day ,whereas the commercial fleets don't have the ability to do so unfortunately .
I've not thought about quotas for pleasure fishing before now ,I know some countries do ....... food for thought .
I know it's been said earlier but I have to say it again ,pleasure fishermen will put back the undersize fish to fight another day ,whereas the commercial fleets don't have the ability to do so unfortunately .
I've not thought about quotas for pleasure fishing before now ,I know some countries do ....... food for thought .
The Great Wallsendo
Well-known member
Boat fishing is not "instant" fish (just look at Lindsea
)...it's invariably down to years of hard work and practice by skippers/private boat owners finding out where and when is best to fish...very much like the old and bolds who know all the "best" spots on shore and are "always" in the fish
Listening to the radio you can hear boats around lamenting at the apparent lack of action...only for you to be sat there smiling smugly. The following week it could quite easily be 4 fish for 8/9 hours effort, after having spent £30 on bait and another £30+ on fuel
If Cod were plentiful from the shore then there'd be Anglers taking as many as they could when the jackpot moment came along and I deny anyone to suggest otherwise
I totally agree with Marks comment about inshore marine habitats seemingly being no longer suitable for a multitude of reasons...possibly down to the very anglers that are trying to fish them.
Imposing Bag limits is knee jerk and reactionary and impossible to police
)...it's invariably down to years of hard work and practice by skippers/private boat owners finding out where and when is best to fish...very much like the old and bolds who know all the "best" spots on shore and are "always" in the fishListening to the radio you can hear boats around lamenting at the apparent lack of action...only for you to be sat there smiling smugly. The following week it could quite easily be 4 fish for 8/9 hours effort, after having spent £30 on bait and another £30+ on fuel
If Cod were plentiful from the shore then there'd be Anglers taking as many as they could when the jackpot moment came along and I deny anyone to suggest otherwise
I totally agree with Marks comment about inshore marine habitats seemingly being no longer suitable for a multitude of reasons...possibly down to the very anglers that are trying to fish them.
Imposing Bag limits is knee jerk and reactionary and impossible to police
SIXFOOTSTEVE
Well-known member
Hmmmm bag limits work well in Australia and help sustain fisheries for the pleasure fisherman , as it's so diverse out there different areas have different bag limits for the same species .
Stores
Well-known member
My two penneth for what it's worth:
1. Commercials - I'd make it illegal to throw anything back, what's sizable gets sold, what's not gets sold as pot bait or feed or fertilizer or whatever - better that than being thrown back. Once the quota's reached, tie the boat up.
2. Fish Size - keep the little ones and put the big 'uns back. Little ones taste nicer, imho.
3. Bag limits - interesting one....I counted up the fish I caught last winter......a massive.............12 fish, but they came from 5 sessions with one blank. A lot for a winters fishing?? Of course not but if the bag limit had been two I would have had to put 4 back (two in the NESA comp). I don't believe our best anglers fish every night, they fish when they're most likely to catch. Even if I lived in Cullercoats I wouldn't fish from March to September.
4. Lack of bait - two sides here I think. Firstly the digging out of bait from various beaches no doubt has an effect on fish that could potentially be caught at high tide but none of the worms that "live" in the holes we fish at low tide get dug out , they only get washed out when conditions are good (I'm no expert on the movement of lug and rag up and down the tides).
However, secondly, I do know that crabs peel in shallow water and disappear when it gets colder and the more we take during the moult the less there will be in the future. When I was young you'd catch red codling in most of our rock end holes but not any more. Perhaps the number of people now freezing down crab is having a devastating effect on fish, inshore, feeding in the summer. Perhaps that's why there's plenty a mile offside (like Van Niestelroy lol)
5. Lastly, when I was younger and the tides were wrong, or we had some bait spare, we'd often put some sets down - a dozen baited hooks, anchored down near the low water mark, retrieved 12 hours later. We did well, knowing where to set them, but only "profited" once or twice a year. Difficult to legislate for and difficult to police.
No answers but an interesting thread. I blame the 'yakers.
1. Commercials - I'd make it illegal to throw anything back, what's sizable gets sold, what's not gets sold as pot bait or feed or fertilizer or whatever - better that than being thrown back. Once the quota's reached, tie the boat up.
2. Fish Size - keep the little ones and put the big 'uns back. Little ones taste nicer, imho.
3. Bag limits - interesting one....I counted up the fish I caught last winter......a massive.............12 fish, but they came from 5 sessions with one blank. A lot for a winters fishing?? Of course not but if the bag limit had been two I would have had to put 4 back (two in the NESA comp). I don't believe our best anglers fish every night, they fish when they're most likely to catch. Even if I lived in Cullercoats I wouldn't fish from March to September.
4. Lack of bait - two sides here I think. Firstly the digging out of bait from various beaches no doubt has an effect on fish that could potentially be caught at high tide but none of the worms that "live" in the holes we fish at low tide get dug out , they only get washed out when conditions are good (I'm no expert on the movement of lug and rag up and down the tides).
However, secondly, I do know that crabs peel in shallow water and disappear when it gets colder and the more we take during the moult the less there will be in the future. When I was young you'd catch red codling in most of our rock end holes but not any more. Perhaps the number of people now freezing down crab is having a devastating effect on fish, inshore, feeding in the summer. Perhaps that's why there's plenty a mile offside (like Van Niestelroy lol)
5. Lastly, when I was younger and the tides were wrong, or we had some bait spare, we'd often put some sets down - a dozen baited hooks, anchored down near the low water mark, retrieved 12 hours later. We did well, knowing where to set them, but only "profited" once or twice a year. Difficult to legislate for and difficult to police.
No answers but an interesting thread. I blame the 'yakers.
johnf
Well-known member
I'm sorry but using the "trawlers do loads of damage so it doesn't matter what we do" card doesn't wash. In my opinion is that it's down to morals. If someone likes fish and wants to fill his freezer then good on you, but the old excuse of giving it to the folk in the street/the cat smacks a bit of the old "great white hunter" syndrome, its the equivalent of hanging the animal heads on the wall, and unfortunatley there's always going to be people like that (the annual Mackeral slaughter is almost upon us !). Last season we nearly a "jackpot" session where me and a mate put back a couple of seven pounders amongst others from the shore, it's a nice feeling to see fish like that swim off. I think attitudes to keeping fish are slowly changing.
i think most serious anglers are into catch and release of the more endangered spieces, but i still see a lot of not so serious anglers take a lot of small fish and leave a lot of litter
, luckily these types only fish 4 or 5 times a year and do little damage. i release just about everything i catch, i always have a camera and scales, am now into specimen/sport fishing, hunting the more wise bigger fish. lucky for me i now live in a land where there are only a few surf-anglers and miles and miles of un-fished coastline.
(i like what these guys have to say on this video!) Total Sea Fishing - Videos - TSF Videos - Extreme Ray Fishing with 24/7 and Surfcast Wales
, luckily these types only fish 4 or 5 times a year and do little damage. i release just about everything i catch, i always have a camera and scales, am now into specimen/sport fishing, hunting the more wise bigger fish. lucky for me i now live in a land where there are only a few surf-anglers and miles and miles of un-fished coastline.(i like what these guys have to say on this video!) Total Sea Fishing - Videos - TSF Videos - Extreme Ray Fishing with 24/7 and Surfcast Wales
5150
Well-known member
I'm sure I saw one of Rex Hunt's prog's where he was on about, not only catch & release, off-limit's areas, catch limits etc but also the breeding & re-stocking programme that they had out in Australia for a lot of species. We really need to be looking into that, I'm sure the likes of the sea-life centre's here have the expertise to be able to guide the setting up of places...
