Artificial Reef
- Thread starter Davyred
- Start date
cocomonkey19k
Well-known member
if they make a reef if will cause more surf for the surfers to get more time on there boards and bring more people to the northeast lol (load of doolaaaaahhhhhsss if you ask me)
Davyred
Well-known member
It wouldn't, it'd break the sea up, the surf would be smaller. As an example, have a look at the offshore kelp beds on Whitley beach.
insanojackson
Guest
I am sure the engineers and experts who design such things will know a bit more about the effect it will have than you
cocomonkey19k
Well-known member
fair play kelp beds break the surf up but take alook at a sand bar (shields beach for example) when the swells hit the sand bar they start to break causeing surf. i could be wrong but im sure that if they build a reef which has a big drop at the back of it then it should pick the surf up
Davyred
Well-known member
Maybe they would......but they said PERMANENT surf. Now 30 years of fishing experience tells me you can't create a nice surf from a sea thats flat as a witches t*t with a gale force westerly blowing against it.
mark
Well-known member
pretty much. an artificial reef would cause beach to shelve more steeply further out, so the incoming swell would hit it, rise up and break over it making waves
there's a lot of rocky skerries/reefs just under the surface where we go in scotland and you get some monster waves breaking over them
there's a lot of rocky skerries/reefs just under the surface where we go in scotland and you get some monster waves breaking over them
Davyred
Well-known member
When you read a beach in rough seas, you look for area's of calm water - this is normally the land side of sand banks. Any wave breaking on a bank loses most of its any energy when it hits the bank, leaving a lazy roll.
Now if that bank wasn't there, the surfers would be in heaven.
ave heard about this reef meant to be built for about 4 yre now and am only 20 ha ha if ya on the rocks in my opinion yad look at where all the white water is(water breaking up) and where it isnt, obviously where it isnt is deeper water tht is where you do ya research on and try it piece out ha ha
Gaverick
Well-known member
I've seen them building one of these on TV before, this article explains it better.
Artificial surf reef images unveiled - Telegraph
There's a video of it being put in to the water here too.
BBC NEWS | England | Work starts on surf reef
Artificial surf reef images unveiled - Telegraph
There's a video of it being put in to the water here too.
BBC NEWS | England | Work starts on surf reef
Stores
Well-known member
It's 21.43 as I write this and I've just got in having had a nice meal and a couple of sherbets but I hope that this doesn't cloud my feelings or judgement of what these changes might mean to us as anglers on Tynemouth Sands.
Firstly those amongst us who know the Sands will understand that on the ebb tide (south to north flow) most of the holes can be fished by casting south of the mark and drifting north (most of the feed being washed to the north end of the hole, which is usually a skeer).
On one hole (the Bathing Pool) the run works the opposite way so on the ebb you actually drift south.
(You guys with spiders can ignore all this 'cos you just sit and wait)
So the beach is a complex set of tide and feeding. So are all beaches along our coast.
You stick in an artificial reef off the Nettley Beds somewhere and, yes, you create the conditions mentioned beforehand, but in reality for us guys, you create a reef that throws the waves at the beach at a constant 90 degree angle that means no erosion or deposition of the holes = no feed being washed out = no fish.
The last council decision to remove the sewer pipes meant the elongation of Tynemouth beach and the condemnation, in my view, to the sanding up of the skeers at the north end of Tynemouth. Add to that the increased erosion of the small sandstone headland above the Smugglers Cave and the future of the fishing on the south side of Cullercoats is in question.
Do we really want this in order to create better conditions for surfers? Or if the added income for the area is worth the change let's at least debate the issue.
S*t after all this I hope this isn't a red herring lol.
Firstly those amongst us who know the Sands will understand that on the ebb tide (south to north flow) most of the holes can be fished by casting south of the mark and drifting north (most of the feed being washed to the north end of the hole, which is usually a skeer).
On one hole (the Bathing Pool) the run works the opposite way so on the ebb you actually drift south.
(You guys with spiders can ignore all this 'cos you just sit and wait)
So the beach is a complex set of tide and feeding. So are all beaches along our coast.
You stick in an artificial reef off the Nettley Beds somewhere and, yes, you create the conditions mentioned beforehand, but in reality for us guys, you create a reef that throws the waves at the beach at a constant 90 degree angle that means no erosion or deposition of the holes = no feed being washed out = no fish.
The last council decision to remove the sewer pipes meant the elongation of Tynemouth beach and the condemnation, in my view, to the sanding up of the skeers at the north end of Tynemouth. Add to that the increased erosion of the small sandstone headland above the Smugglers Cave and the future of the fishing on the south side of Cullercoats is in question.
Do we really want this in order to create better conditions for surfers? Or if the added income for the area is worth the change let's at least debate the issue.
S*t after all this I hope this isn't a red herring lol.
pottsy
Well-known member
I don't think it is David. I attended a meeting a few weeks ago where the Chief Executive of North Tyneside Council said that they had come up with a solution to the eyesore of the bathing pool and that a new and exiting project would be announced following a trip to Malmo in Sweden to see what they have been doing out there. I notice that they are into creating artificial islands so I take it that this is the project he was referring to. If i find out any information at work regarding consultation for this project I will let you all know.
johnf
Well-known member
Excellent point David. It could even drop a big sand bar on the shore side of the "reef" which could hinder the surfing. I wonder if anyone knows for definite what would happen if this was built. You would need to model it to find out. (On the plus side NT council have only £30k for the project. Thats not going to buy many concrete blocks!). The removal of the redundant sewer pipes changed the south end of Whitley beach, did it put more sand intp Slaty as well?. I can remember that side being a haven for your metal detecting pals.
Off topic thought...
Off topic thought...
Apologies for the change in topic (which is a very interesting one) but have you (Stores) ever thought of setting up a website/blog similar to this one? Codhead Bob's Top Marks. In this way you could invest your expertise and experience of some of the Tynemouth/Cullercoats marks to a wider audience. Now of course there are many experienced anglers who fish these marks and understand them well, but perhaps they lack the verve to convey their knowledge in the same fashion you can. Of course there is your book - a very interesting read - but I think that your publication is more of a personal memoire and my one criticism is that it doesn't go far enough in detailing the science behind the art. I think that you are well-positioned to deliver a detailed insight into some of these more local marks in a logical manner. Who knows? if we have more and more anglers better-equippped (knowledge wise) to fish the Tynemouth and wider area marks, we will have a greater voice and stronger self-interest to protect our local beaches in the face of popular commercial decisions taken by the local council.
Off topic thought...
Apologies for the change in topic (which is a very interesting one) but have you (Stores) ever thought of setting up a website/blog similar to this one? Codhead Bob's Top Marks. In this way you could invest your expertise and experience of some of the Tynemouth/Cullercoats marks to a wider audience. Now of course there are many experienced anglers who fish these marks and understand them well, but perhaps they lack the verve to convey their knowledge in the same fashion you can. Of course there is your book - a very interesting read - but I think that your publication is more of a personal memoire and my one criticism is that it doesn't go far enough in detailing the science behind the art. I think that you are well-positioned to deliver a detailed insight into some of these more local marks in a logical manner. Who knows? if we have more and more anglers better-equippped (knowledge wise) to fish the Tynemouth and wider area marks, we will have a greater voice and stronger self-interest to protect our local beaches in the face of popular commercial decisions taken by the local council.
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treeboa
Well-known member
wonder how long it will be before they suddenly realise they have bolloxed the beach up, does not take much to alter the flow enough to pull sand away from under sea defences and such, sometimes miles away from the area
interesting one then, with this licencing for sea anglers, will these ` bar stewards` be wanting money from that kitty if the licience goes ahead
interesting one then, with this licencing for sea anglers, will these ` bar stewards` be wanting money from that kitty if the licience goes ahead
The moneys only to fund research to see if the projects viable in the first place and surely its a boost to the eco system creating a nursery area for fish..its also a place of interest for divers.. so maybe that would stop the beach being netted off ???? can't see them going to all that trouble just to let the boats come in and spoil things ???
North Tyneside Council: Media releases
North Tyneside Council: Media releases
Stores
Well-known member
The reason there was a proviso at the end of my thread (the debate bit) is that my theory of the future of the sands, with a bar, is simply that - a theory. Your point Paul, about a nursery or even the idea that the reef itself is a harbour for fish needs examining (although our shoreline is far from being the desert usually associated with artificial reefs) and who's to say that fishermen invest more money into the local economy than surfers may do in the future?
What worries me is that decisions are made at a two dimensional level, without looking at the effect elsewhere. The sewer pipe issue has pushed the sand at Tynemouth northwards and is covering the skeers of the harbour - we can all see that but it also means that the headland and the coal seamed boulder clay cliff just south of it are now eroding at a faster rate than I can ever remember. It also means that the level of the rest of the sands is lower than previous as there is only a limited amount of sand out there and that will have an effect, perhaps, on the holes on the beach or even the set of the tides. Providing this has been taken into consideration (or even been ignored as irrelevant) then at least a process of some sort will have been followed. I'm also conscious that change is inevitable (look at photos of Cullercoats before the piers were built, or the proms were put in, or the sewer pipes for that matter and things were different again) I just hope we make decisions with consequences already explored. Perhaps we'll end up with a long parallel hole, something like Seaton Sluice, between the Bathing Pool and the Bears Back.
Do I fancy starting a blog??? Do you know how difficult it is to type with one finger while marking books with the other hand????? pmsl
What worries me is that decisions are made at a two dimensional level, without looking at the effect elsewhere. The sewer pipe issue has pushed the sand at Tynemouth northwards and is covering the skeers of the harbour - we can all see that but it also means that the headland and the coal seamed boulder clay cliff just south of it are now eroding at a faster rate than I can ever remember. It also means that the level of the rest of the sands is lower than previous as there is only a limited amount of sand out there and that will have an effect, perhaps, on the holes on the beach or even the set of the tides. Providing this has been taken into consideration (or even been ignored as irrelevant) then at least a process of some sort will have been followed. I'm also conscious that change is inevitable (look at photos of Cullercoats before the piers were built, or the proms were put in, or the sewer pipes for that matter and things were different again) I just hope we make decisions with consequences already explored. Perhaps we'll end up with a long parallel hole, something like Seaton Sluice, between the Bathing Pool and the Bears Back.
Do I fancy starting a blog??? Do you know how difficult it is to type with one finger while marking books with the other hand????? pmsl
